Topic: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/sh … tcount=304

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This was at a 24 hrs of Lemons race (Toledo last year). The driver got a penalty (I forget why?) and they said "bring tools, you are going to have a LOT of work to do on the car". He grabbed his BIG tool box full of everything and took it over where they then filled it with expanding foam. I heard about the incident via phone call (I didn't attend that event) and we're still picking foam off of his sockets and out of his tools. It was Lemons and it was a driver penalty (passing under yellow? Contact? I'm not sure, but it wasn't a MAJOR issue, just a dumb driver move)."


Let me start off by saying I'm a very big proponent on the no whining rule.

Lemons is about fun, and thats about it.  Inevitably you'll probably get a black flag, and sent to the penalty box, where some sort of fun, or not fun penalty will result.  However, as someone who normally brings about 10k in equipment/tools to every event, solely because they are on casters, and easily roll into my trailer, making any repairs I may need to do way faster, and normally is a huge help to my friends who have an open trailer and a half-empty 1/4'' SAE socket rail, I do have to inquire if this penalty is really within the spirit of Lemons.

To be put bluntly, if someone on my team or I passed under yellow (hey, it happens) , and was assigned this penalty, I would be genuinely pissed off, as some of us use our tools every single day as a source of income.



Now whining is what happens when someone says, "Thats gay, I think its stupid" and leaves it at that.

Here's my deal.  Tools are EXPENSIVE!!!  We all know this, except you people who buy everything at Harbor Frieght...anyways, could we come up with some alternative penalties?

Here are some of my ideas:

Toolbox is broughten, Lemons judges are equipped with 5-10 of the $4.95 plastic toolboxes you buy at Wal-Mart.  Judge supervises and inspects toolbox (not re-arranging stuff, as again, this is people's source of income sometimes) and subsequently impounds every wrench/socket most critical to repair.

Lets say I bring a 240sx, everyone knows you can build these cars using a 10mm,  12, 14, and 17mm for the most part.  Removal of these tools for say....4 Hours from your pit area if your car is damaged would be a slight hassle, but would also be greatly humiliating as you ask other teams to borrow a few sockets due to your inability to observe a yellow flag.  In 4 hours you get your tools back that have been kept safely in a plastic labelled bin, you go home, and at 8am Monday you're back to work with no adverse effects from the super-fun Lemons race you and your friends invested way too much time/money in and life is back to normal, except you've got some funny stories you've acquired since you left work on Friday.



















side note:!

If you're on this forum looking to get into Lemons, don't get a 240sx!! booorriiing!!!
Same with Miata-e30*-mustang-rx7!! 



*okay with ranchero conversion.

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

143 veiws, no reply....

bump...would really like to know about this.

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

sounds like a good penalty.  Don't want to risk it, bring crappy tools.

Proudly pissing off Pick 'n Pull employees since 1991
Team The Homer

1981 Ford Fairmont Durango

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

That sounds like too much work for the judges. We do like penalties that require teams to borrow stuff from other teams, though.

As for the foam-in-toolbox thing, that was the work of a guest judge who was flogged with barbed wire when we found out what he'd done.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

Could be worse: they could've opened your TB/carb and expanding foamed your intake manifold...

8 time Lemons loser!
Go team Faster Farms! [ http://fasterfarms.blogspot.com ]

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

pics or it didn't happen

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

monkei wrote:

Could be worse: they could've opened your TB/carb and expanding foamed your intake manifold...

there is a BIG difference between beating up the Lemons car (expected, and sometimes needed) and damaging someone's source of income.


As for the foam-in-toolbox thing, that was the work of a guest judge who was flogged with barbed wire when we found out what he'd done.

cool.  I apologize for bringing this up, as I'm sure yall aren't very proud of it, but i can hope you understand why it honestly had me a genuine good bit worried.

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

8 (edited by Jeff G 78 2010-03-09 09:17 PM)

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

The penalty was at Nelson Ledges, not Toledo and the team who got it was parked next to us.  It was a nice Home Depot toolset with ratcheting wrenches, sockets, etc.  The driver spent several hours trying to remove the foam without making much progress.  He was a very good sport about it though and took it in stride.

I don't have the link handy, but I just saw the toolbox getting foamed as part of a Nelson recap video on youtube.  I'm sure you could find it by searching lamest day or nelson ledges and Lemons on youtube. 

I thought it was a pretty rotten thing to do when I saw it.  Hopefully they found a solvent that removes the foam.  Otherwise, the plastic case and ratcheting wrenches are pretty much ruined.

EDIT:  I found the link.  FF to 1:40 in the video for the toolbox foam penalty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mTJgOgEAos

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
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Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

Quit whining about something that happened to someone else for something they surely deserved.

1) Don't bring your valuable tools to Lemons if youre worried about it
2) Don't do shit that will cause your team penalites
3) Don't team up with people who will do shit that will cause you penalties.
4) Leave a light on at night so the boogie man will stay under your bed

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

Harsh penalty, maybe you can get the same effect, without damaging any tools, by introducing this penalty: Give the team a repair/task to deal with, but they are not allowed to use their own tools at any point, they have to borrow, beg, and grovel for everything they need.

Or even better: they have to coach their wives and girlfriends to make the repairs, no touching the car allowed.

Driving While Awesome #44
Porsche 944
BMW 325e

11 (edited by mikespeed95 2010-03-10 12:15 AM)

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

IgnoranteWest wrote:

Quit whining about something that happened to someone else for something they surely deserved.

1) Don't bring your valuable tools to Lemons if youre worried about it
2) Don't do shit that will cause your team penalites
3) Don't team up with people who will do shit that will cause you penalties.
4) Leave a light on at night so the boogie man will stay under your bed

Hey there Mr. 5 Post count!!

Some people are well aware their cars will break, because this is Lemons, and they brought something thats legitimately within $500.  I'll bring my tools, and I think Murilee's post about how douche of a move that was pretty much was all that was needed to ad to this thread, and you seem to be the only one who's got a problem with it.


Seeing you're from Texas and don't think bringing nice things to Lemons is a good idea, or tools at all maybe, on the random chance you are pitted anywhere near a Subaru Brat and your $500 car breaks, don't ask that team to borrow anything and everyone will be happy, and set in their ways.


Driving While Awesome wrote:

Harsh penalty, maybe you can get the same effect, without damaging any tools, by introducing this penalty: Give the team a repair/task to deal with, but they are not allowed to use their own tools at any point, they have to borrow, beg, and grovel for everything they need.

Or even better: they have to coach their wives and girlfriends to make the repairs, no touching the car allowed.

Exactly, see whining is complaining with no constructive solution, this is another good solution.

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

Not that I agree with the penalty, but brake cleaner or gasoline melts that foam with the quickness...

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

Yeah seems over the line to me too.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

Driving While Awesome wrote:

Harsh penalty, maybe you can get the same effect, without damaging any tools, by introducing this penalty: Give the team a repair/task to deal with, but they are not allowed to use their own tools at any point, they have to borrow, beg, and grovel for everything they need.

Or even better: they have to coach their wives and girlfriends to make the repairs, no touching the car allowed.

This is a fantastic idea.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

We aren't going to do any penalty that makes teams do unsafe repairs on their race car with missing/inadequate tools.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

Yeah, those kinds of shenanigans are cruel and tragic, which makes them not really shenanigans at all.

Summer's Eve Racing - '09 Yee-Haw; '10 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie, Yee-Haw; '11 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie (Winner, Class A!)
TARP Racing - '11 Yee-Haw, Heaps; '12 Gator-O-Rama (Winner, Class C ... Looking for a Class B Win to Complete the Trifecta!), Heaps; '13 NorDal Hooptie, Gator-O-Rama

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

MurileeMartin wrote:

We aren't going to do any penalty that makes teams do unsafe repairs on their race car with missing/inadequate tools.

I don't know what sort of tool you can't borrow from someone in the pits at Lemons, except maybe the more obscure special purpose manufacturer tools.

And we aren't talking about making a team mess with their brakes or anything - have them go borrow a spark plug socket and a torque wrench and make sure that they haven't bent an electrode on one of their plugs.

Or make them borrow tools to do a "repair" on the Tempo of judgement.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

YesIFit wrote:

Yeah, those kinds of shenanigans are cruel and tragic, which makes them not really shenanigans at all.

now there is a movie that lends it's self to a theme.  "you boys like Mex-e-co?"

the Syndicate - 30 losses and counting ...
89 VW Jettarosa - #337 (11 motors later) <> 67 Mercedes 200 - #200, winner "most with the least" MSR Feb 11, IOE at MSR June 11 <> 88 Mercedes 560 SEL <> 76 Mercedes SLC - IOE at ECR March 13 <> now pimping performance parts for 1970-1980's Mercedes SEL, SEC, SL, SLC's

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

I'll just say that I understand the disclaimer in the rules and will accept any misfortune that happens to my car....and my driver's attire (even though this is a stretch).

Any further than that, then you might as well just take a sledge to my new tow rig or take a dump in my living room.

The Charnal House Geo MetSHO: Turning less laps than a regular Metro, the hard way!

1969 Subaru 360

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

MurileeMartin wrote:

We aren't going to do any penalty that makes teams do unsafe repairs on their race car with missing/inadequate tools.

Are you calling my wife and girlfriends "inadequate tools"?

Drat! And Double Drat!

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

krek wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

We aren't going to do any penalty that makes teams do unsafe repairs on their race car with missing/inadequate tools.

Are you calling my wife and girlfriends "inadequate tools"?

That's yet to be determined; post pics and we'll see.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

Wow, that sucks.  I'm glad we didn't have to deal with Judge "look at me I'm awesome!"

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

krek wrote:

my wife and girlfriends

i see a brothel theme...

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

Driving While Awesome wrote:

Harsh penalty, maybe you can get the same effect, without damaging any tools, by introducing this penalty: Give the team a repair/task to deal with, but they are not allowed to use their own tools at any point, they have to borrow, beg, and grovel for everything they need.
Or even better: they have to coach their wives and girlfriends to make the repairs, no touching the car allowed.

Um, hi.  Wife / female driver here.

When I decided to drive, it was clear that I'd also have to get dirty.  So I learned how to change out a radiator, replace the breaks, and (shamefully, since every driver should know this) how to do an oil change.

Your proposed penalty isn't a penalty.  Stop assuming we're stupid.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Toolbox full of expansion foam penalty? (really?!)

no offense, but i've had to drive 45 minutes to help my girlfriend changer her tire once because she genuinelly didn't know how.


also in all fairness, once time i towed my freinds car home, because HE didn't know how to change a tire, and blew out two because he thought it'd be okay.

also had a freind , he didn't know how to check his oil...

another friend, him and his friend were on way to freind #2's wedding, jumped a curb, cracked oil pan, both them assumed it was okay, then brought it to me and thought i was lying when i said they'd need a new oilpan and proceeded to drive on it.

people (in general) are ignorant with cars, unless they enjoy them, and demographically speaking women don't play with cars, i didn't see him assuming everyone was stupid, but i will say from 1st hand former girlfriends only one of them "worked on cars" and she could barely changer her oil, and this is the common 1st hand observed perspective of most guys, nobody was calling you stupid, but i will absolutely say if i was forced to show my girlfriend how to fix anything on the car it would definately be a time-consuming endeavor, therefore a great penalty, and she absolutely agree with this.

i think its a good penaltly, but at the same time too to make sure nothing at the track goes home from the track (i'm could see someone getting pissed becuase they are being too serious about racing, which is why they may be in the penalty box in the 1st place).  this could be a fun penalty but all it would take is Mr. Bobby Buttholetootight to get mad at his wife (in which case we should all stone him, seriously) because she is taking too long.

Personally i think this'd be a good penalty, and i would probably end up laughing a lot trying to explain to my woman how to fix whatever may be wrong in theoretical scenario.  i do think for safety reasons we shoudl be allowed to hold things/breat bolts if needbe so our women don't get hurt.  one time at work we had a newscrew come in for "job swap" and we had the news-lady doing a diesel service, and we absolutely didn't let her little 100lb frame try to pull the 80lb wheel/tire off the truck.

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.