Fucking Torque Converters, How Do They Work?! (Page 1 of 2)

CHEETURZ!!!111!!!!!!11!

No help for you on the primary question, but I have anecdotally seen MANY instances where a car failed because "the driver didn't remember to manage the switchable [cooling element, usually, but occasionally other things]."

No offense to anyone on this board, but driving the car, managing traffic, and trying to remember to check gauges is frequently a full workload for even experienced Lemons racers. Having an expectation of also managing some critical mechanical component on a switch is a big ask.

Oh, I agree completely - it's one of the benefits of having an automatic transmission.  There's so much else to have to manage and worry about with driving - just let the car figure out what gear you need to be in!  A manual would be nice, but, since the car's already an automatic, I don't think there's enough positives to a manual to warrant the effort of the change. 

That said, I don't think a TCC lockup switch is a critical thing.  I guess remembering to turn it on is an ask, but, if someone forgets to switch it on, it's just going to do like it's doing now.  And, if/when the big tablet starts flashing bright red and beeping because the transmission is too hot, they could just turn the switch on rather than think 'Matthew would probably want me to alter my driving and cool the transmission off.  Oh well.'  Of course, fast forward to me trying to pull off the track at the end of the race, the car dying, and me alternating between start-stalls-start-stalls, getting towed in, and realizing I'd just forgotten the switch.  But, idiots will find a way.

Hopefully Manny aka Mkotzias will respond for his thoughts but I can get you in contact w/him if push comes to shove. I wouldn't put a higher stall converter in there. It will likely just add more heat to the system. The issue you have with lock up is that it can end up locking and unlocking numerous times which degrades the life of the converter.

Can you add a second cooler to the system?

Is there a different automatic transmission you can swap in?

Since I got thrown into this one......4t60Es are famous for losing the overdrive hub and clutches for 4th gear. Assuming most tracks don't need 4th gear and the fact that we all drive pushing the loud pedal trying to contact the Radiator with our heel, it is more a case of the trans is cooked. They are a hot running transmission to begin with but if you cant keep the temps under control with a larger cooler you have a toasty set of clutches inside. An earlier stall speed can help with temps but it will degrade your acceleration. (who am I kidding, acceleration won't affect your race whatsoever!)
My 2 cents..... or lack of common sense, IDK!
Manny

Um, what was said about 4th/od is true. My old GTP wouldn’t shift out of third until around 145 mph. So I don’t think you’re going to need that on most road courses.

Higher stall speed is really just beneficial for drag racing. The following is a gross generalization. When you’re getting ready to launch, you can apply throttle while holding the brakes on. The rpm that it stops building at is your stall. Higher stall = more rpms=harder launch. All of which can be undone with poor tires!

Oh yes, definitely no 4th.  Even at Sebring on 15" wheels (with correspondingly small tires), the car would just barely get to the top of 3rd on the long back straightaway.  Now, on 17s, it's not even close at Road Atlanta.  I think being a large car with a lot of drag and not a ton of power helps. 

And, I do know we've gone through some clutch material.  How much is anyone's guess, but, at some point, they're going to give up.  I think when the time comes, a lower stall converter is worth a try - if it ends up not being a good move, it's a pain, but, it can always be swapped back out for a different one.  I've done some internet digging and even reached out to some transmission shops, and no one seems to have any clue about increasing flow to the cooler.  Because, if the cooler is already doing its job of cooling the fluid back down, adding more cooler is just going to reduce pressure (and flow) further, and make the situation worse.

I hadn't thought of an auxiliary cooling circuit.  That's a good idea!  I'm not sure that it will work here, because the pan is extremely shallow, and it's in the same plane as the bottom of the engine cradle (i.e. anything lower will be the lowest point on the middle of the car), so, adding to the bottom is probably not a wise option either.  But, if there is a good spot somewhere, other than making sure the tap is done really well, the rest of it should be able to be served by the same stuff you'd use for a differential cooler. 

I've been tempted by this aftermarket pan that has fins on it, but, again, the fins would be the lowest thing on the middle of the car, so, say someone puts 2 off and there's a rut beside the track or something, instead of the engine cradle hitting the concrete, your transmission pan is hitting the concrete.  Not sure that's really something I'm looking for. 

https://zzperformance.com/products/4t65 … XMQAvD_BwE

Oh, you dont need to go to the pan, cause the oil level is up higher. So would drill and tap side of the case and there you go   I would use a thermal switch that would trigger a basic gear 12V pump and fan on cooler. Can even add an oil filter if you want. You can also make some ducts and point it right at the transmission, that actually works. As long as you get nice flow through. Much options

Skid plates are fun, besides removing air flow... so win/lose

Racing the pointy end w/a heavy RWD, mostly in the other series, with a A class equivalent for a decade+ . Now running 2 sister teams w/automatics.

Here are thoughts reading the OP:

Get a basic $100 shift improver kit installed in the replacement  unit, it will tighten shifts adding longevity, reducing slip/heat. You already cooked this current one.

Fluid turning color quickly (in a race or 2) Unit is already burned up, change it now, before the next race.

Redline does a worse job then AMILIE universal Synthetic, I will use NOTHING other, will go to extremes to find more when supplies locally dry up. If not amilie, find mobile 1 or equivalent while shopping for amilie 

Cooler, get the biggest one you can find, then find a bigger one, make sure to put it in front of the car.

Pump? Only if using as a aux pan cooler with a separate cooling circuit, never tried but sounds like a great idea.

New Converter? Yes and no, if used trans, use what came with it, NEVER recycle the one from a burnt unit. Yes, we have used the same "new one" bought long ago but its ill advised as it can store much crud from the last failure.

Stall does not go up with a lighter car, it should go down as its easier to accelerate.

Lower stall? If it doesn't exist, its likely no one will make it, all convertor company's are mentally programmed to drag race, have been told NO (with a giggle in the background) numerous times.

Lockup? Might work but Have not tried, always feared the thing wouldnt work with our duty cycle and figured it would end the day sooner if so

To summarize: Change the unit when the fluid browns, its already hurt, and get a bigger cooler... then double it.

Hope this helps

This should keep it cool.
Mounting might be a challenge, though.
Oil Cooler
BTW I was not endorsing, nor recommending Redline Oils, just racing ATF.
I use Mobil 1, mostly. Amilie is not well known on the West Coast.

Thanks for the info!!!

I'll throw on two coolers since they're free and go from there.

I've got an amsoil membership and their OE universal fluid is the same price as amilie... I've never seem that brand on the shelf out here so it'd need be ordered at which point I might as well go Amsoil.

I agree with the sentiment that “if you need it it’s probably too late” regarding Type F… but, although I can see how it helps, what I’m unclear about is the downside to using Type F. Application would be the TH400 in the neverending Vette project, and perhaps the ancient Benz 500SE which I’ve been know to drive inadvisably hard on the streets.