Topic: Locker or LSD?

Because the Cherokee is a coil sprung solid axle in front, and a leaf sprung rear axle, I'm having lots of issues putting power down out of corners.  Since the Jeep's natural habitat is off-road, there are a wide variety of cheap limited slips or locking differentials, the locker being super common and cheap.

The question is, does anybody have any experience running a Detroit (or similar) locker on a road course?  Would I be better off rebuilding a factory LSD?  Any input?

-Matt

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

Check out our FB Page and follow our various exploits.

Re: Locker or LSD?

I've been DD'ing a autolocker for years now.  I sure as heck would NOT want one in a roadrace vehicle.  Dragrace or dirttrack car, maybe.

There's probably a good supply of used factory LSD's for cheap, with everybody stepping up w/ autolocker or selectable locker.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: Locker or LSD?

FJ40Jim wrote:

I've been DD'ing a autolocker for years now.  I sure as heck would NOT want one in a roadrace vehicle.

I know what you mean; I've gone from a Lock-Rite to a full case Detroit to an ARB in my DD/Trail rig.  But the only issues I ever had from the full time lockers was at low speed, parking lot situations where there's a significant speed differential between left and right.  Also, we're not talking about 37's, but rather about 29" tall road tires.

Anybody ever see/use a Detroit on a road course?

------Matt-----

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

Check out our FB Page and follow our various exploits.

Re: Locker or LSD?

You don't see many sports cars with lockers.  That should tell you something about their relative merits for road racing.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: Locker or LSD?

just weld up the rear solid... lots of racers used to do that, and costs nuthin.

Careful at parking lots speeds tho... broke an axle going to slow with a tight turn in the parking lot on race tires.

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Locker or LSD?

If you weld it up, expect some understeer at turn in if you don't "set" the car at entry to unload the inside rear wheel....you might find a softer suspension helps, i.e. if you lower and stiffen the car with sticky tires, you might have to "dirt track" it in tighter corners, maybe with some left foot brake.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Locker or LSD?

A welded diff will surely tear up your rears pretty well.

You are only entitled to the space you occupy.

Re: Locker or LSD?

don't lock or weld it, just better off open. I have a Scout of 44's wit a Detroit and a weld rear, it would suck if my track car has the same divablity.

the Syndicate - 30 losses and counting ...
89 VW Jettarosa - #337 (11 motors later) <> 67 Mercedes 200 - #200, winner "most with the least" MSR Feb 11, IOE at MSR June 11 <> 88 Mercedes 560 SEL <> 76 Mercedes SLC - IOE at ECR March 13 <> now pimping performance parts for 1970-1980's Mercedes SEL, SEC, SL, SLC's

Re: Locker or LSD?

Trevor57 wrote:

A welded diff will surely tear up your rears pretty well.

Not at speed, and certainly not with over 200 tread wear tires. people have been sprint racing on slicks with welded rears forever... Sure beats an open diff, especially on a pig like this IMO

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Locker or LSD?

I sure don't want to be racing next to you if you are on LSD

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang

Re: Locker or LSD?

If welded, it will feel like a dog if you drive a tidy line and straight line brake before turn in....the more aggressively you drive the more "free" it will feel...if you get held up by slower traffic at the turn in point, you'll have to anticipate the understeer or provoke the weight shift with a stab of left foot brake after you've dialed in a little steering angle. It can be done...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Locker or LSD?

We race on a welded diff. 

I would prefer an LSD but they are expensive.  I am still working on a cheap LSD option.

If I could come up with a cheap and reliable LSD, I would run on.

A stock LSD for a Jeep would probably be good for you guys.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Locker or LSD?

Weld the front diff. use more gas pedal

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Locker or LSD?

We run a welded diff in the Uncontrollable Mustang. Front tire wear is a bigger issue than the rears. You will learn to drive with the gas pedal in order to get the vehicle to go from understeer to neutral or oversteer.

The big difference between running a locker on the street and the track is that the locker will become predicatble on the track. Since you are running the same turns, repeatedly, you will figure out what the vehicle is going to do at each point of the track. Your driving style will adjust accordingly, as you learn what the vehicle is going to do before it does it. On the street, you never know what is going to come up.

Just my .02

Re: Locker or LSD?

Why not make your own Phantom Grip?

http://home.earthlink.net/~beanbooger/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/image018a.jpg

http://store.phantomgrip.com/catalog/images/pgu.jpg

Re: Locker or LSD?

if there are cheap lsds, do that.  or weld your pinion to your ring gear.  wink

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/02/Welded-Differential2jpg.jpg

Re: Locker or LSD?

bob-e wrote:

if there are cheap lsds, do that.  or weld your pinion to your ring gear.  wink

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/j … al2jpg.jpg

Lol, saw that thread on Pirate4x4 back in the day.  Never found out if it was a hoax or not...

BTW, some valve springs would work nicely for the knockoff Phantom Grip (Phanny Gripe?).

18 (edited by AnotherFilthyDriver 2010-05-13 05:52 PM)

Re: Locker or LSD?

I run a locker on my track car and its the hot setup for the car. Its got a live axle and leaf springs in the rear. BRE (The real Brock Racing Enterprises)  did it with their Datsun roadsters for years. I run the car on the street as well. It does tend to make the back end slide through corners, but once you learn how to drive it, it can be very fast.

Set up the rear suspension on the soft side, and use a big front anti sway bar.

Will

Filthy Faux Porsche 935

1959 Alfa Giuletta 101.02 Sprint (huge project) 1969 Alfa 105.51 GTV (daily driver, now dead)
1969 Datsun 2000 (race car, current daily driver)

19

Re: Locker or LSD?

Know a lot of road racers (SCCA, NASA etc) that run welded diffs. Including me.  Never had an issue with breaking an axle (knock on wood), tire wera on the rears is not abnormal, the biggest PITA is trying to push the car with the steering at any angle other than straight.

If you like to use the throttle to control yaw, especially with small horses, weld it.

Re: Locker or LSD?

rockwood wrote:
bob-e wrote:

if there are cheap lsds, do that.  or weld your pinion to your ring gear.  wink

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/j … al2jpg.jpg

Lol, saw that thread on Pirate4x4 back in the day.  Never found out if it was a hoax or not...

It was a hoax.  By page 7 he had admitted it but then it got buried and/or people never saw it and the thread continued.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Locker or LSD?

RobL wrote:
rockwood wrote:
bob-e wrote:

if there are cheap lsds, do that.  or weld your pinion to your ring gear.  wink

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/j … al2jpg.jpg

Lol, saw that thread on Pirate4x4 back in the day.  Never found out if it was a hoax or not...

It was a hoax.  By page 7 he had admitted it but then it got buried and/or people never saw it and the thread continued.

Awesome.  I must've been one of the people who buried it... big_smile