Topic: new roll cage ideas, in light of Helmet to metal 2" rule

The new rule on the spacing from the drivers helmet to the roll cage, or the outer plane of the cage (broomstick rule), is going to cause problems for many race teams with existing cages fit inside the car.  Some of that discussion has been happening here:
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewt … 897#p78897

I spent last night looking at the HondAcura (Civic Dx hatchback) trying to figure out how to solve the problem. We have already dropped the new Evo XL seat a couple inches to accommodate two taller drivers for the March race, and we have 2" to the outer plane, but we are no where near to having 2" of space to the upper left roll bar. To solve that problem I think we are flattening the tunnel and moving the seat toward the center of the car. Its going to be hard enough for the shorter drivers to see over the steering wheel, I think we are also making seat inserts for everyone but the big guy.

As part of that solution, I spent some time and discussion with a couple team mates and came up with some ideas for a new roll cage, if we decide to go down that path. Or we might just junk this car and get a new car and put the "new" cage in that one.

Idea #A. has already been posted here:
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=8419
Its a upward bent ridge bar to allow for more vertical room under the cage. This doesn't solve the spacing to the left side halo bar, but its one idea.

Idea #B. Make the Halo hoop wider and have it be outside the window. This would probably require cutting the upper window frame. This might also require cutting of the B-pillar, and so that might violate the un-modified structure rule.

Idea #C Roof Rack> drill holes in the roof for the 6 upright and put the upper halo on the OUTSIDE of the car. This make the upper halo now a roof rack. This also give you a nice handle to grab onto for exiting the car. It also makes building the cage a lot easier, all of the welding can be done with good access to all joints. The helmet to metal clearance now becomes 2" to the cars original roof structure, not the roll bars and so there is much more room to mount the seat at a normal height, which will allow people to actually see out of there cars.

Idea#D  Well if your putting the roll cage on the roof, why have a roof? All cars are now convertibles/roadsters? Just cut the dam roof off? You'll need to tie the front body and rear body sections into the roll cage to have a stiff car, and this again might violate the "no structural modifications" rule, but it seems like the easy answer, you build a tall cage to allow your drivers to have good sight lines depending on the car.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

2 (edited by trekkor 2011-02-16 11:37 AM)

Re: new roll cage ideas, in light of Helmet to metal 2" rule

I was afraid this was going to happen.

For some cars, cutting the roof away to use a driver's side 'a' pillar down bar that allow 2 inches of clearance may be the only way to be legal.

If that is not allowed, then I guess we'll need a list of cars that are banned from Lemons because they cannot be built within the rules.

Getting turned away in tech with no way to race would be a real drag...


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports

3 (edited by Jeff G 78 2011-02-16 11:31 AM)

Re: new roll cage ideas, in light of Helmet to metal 2" rule

We briefly talked about losing the roof as a possible solution, but S30's are already really flexible.  The only way to regain the torsion and bending strength without a roof would be to totally rebuild the cage with many more members.  Cheap racing is becoming less cheap...

Like some of you have stated, we can meet the 2" to the outer plane rule with minor changes, but getting 2" away from the upper left bar isn't going to happen without major rework.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: new roll cage ideas, in light of Helmet to metal 2" rule

Jeff G 78 wrote:

We briefly talked about losing the roof as a possible solution, but S30's are already really flexible.  The only way to regain the torsion and bending strength without a roof would be to totally rebuild the cage with many more members.  Cheap racing is becoming less cheap...

Like some of you have stated, we can meet the 2" to the outer plane rule with minor changes, but getting 2" away from the upper left bar isn't going to happen without major rework.

Send me a pic of the (helmeted) driver in the car and I'll work with you.. We understand that on some smaller cars that it is difficult to achieve our required clearance.     

-John

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: new roll cage ideas, in light of Helmet to metal 2" rule

Evil Genius wrote:

Send me a pic of the (helmeted) driver in the car and I'll work with you.. We understand that on some smaller cars that it is difficult to achieve our required clearance.     

-John

This is good news, as most of us are driving small cars.
Thanks!


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports

Re: new roll cage ideas, in light of Helmet to metal 2" rule

Evil Genius wrote:

Send me a pic of the (helmeted) driver in the car and I'll work with you.. We understand that on some smaller cars that it is difficult to achieve our required clearance.     

-John

Thanks John.  The car is in winter storage for the next month or so, but I'll see if I can find any existing pics.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: new roll cage ideas, in light of Helmet to metal 2" rule

we will be submitting 914 photos as soon as we can get it out of winter storage

Formerly an asshole driving an Infinity
Now just another cock with a Porsche
Chief bad decision maker of Team Lowbrau

8 (edited by Jeff G 78 2011-02-18 03:46 PM)

Re: new roll cage ideas, in light of Helmet to metal 2" rule

the head wrote:

we will be submitting 914 photos as soon as we can get it out of winter storage

That's a LOT of photos!  lol

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: new roll cage ideas, in light of Helmet to metal 2" rule

Well, now I think we should all read the illustrated 24 HoL rules that were just posted. Things are now documented. So don't quote me anymore.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche