Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

As someone earlier noted, people don't read.

I put together a YouTube playlist for another track program that I work with. It's basically all the stuff that we put out for new participants, but in narrated power points, because people will click a YouTube link and watch/listen. iRacing has a really good "Driving School" playlist that was my inspiration for my list. We could do the same for Lemons.

I've also worked with other programs where experienced participants volunteer to help less experienced participants and they wear something that indicates that they can help, generally a name tag or shirt that denotes their status.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

It’s Lemons, so I think it should be this hat. https://www.safetylightsandsignals.com/images/product/medium/1180.jpg

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

I suggested this https://www.amazon.com/Adults-Velvet-Mi … B008HRL232 for the hat.

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

At the AZ race a couple years ago I made Judge Phil a replica of this hat except it had a Cordoba hood ornament that folded.

https://twitter.com/nigelbritto/status/ … 08?lang=en

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

55

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

Every Lemons team needs a mom. While I may be the team captain, my wife serves as the Lemons Mom in addition to driver. Sounds like we need a for hire service to get captains married.

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

CPB wrote:

Every Lemons team needs a mom. While I may be the team captain, my wife serves as the Lemons Mom in addition to driver. Sounds like we need a for hire service to get captains married.

Our team mom has never been any of our wives but we have had one since race #2.  A good friend and colleague of mine, my renter, and now my former renter's (same guy) ex-girlfriend have all filled the roll.  Though important to have...it will not help a Captain get a team to the track.  It will help him or her have drivers hydrated and appropriately evacuated, on their spot to drive or fuel which is very, very important.

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

OnkelUdo wrote:

I suggested this https://www.amazon.com/Adults-Velvet-Mi … B008HRL232 for the hat.

Now put a yellow rotating beacon in there and we got ourselves some synergy!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

Can we have a teams looking for "moms" section?

That sounds dirty as I type it, but you know what I mean. Maybe as a subset of teams looking for drivers to offset the internet tendency toward dereliction...

Because I'll totally pay someone's gate fees plus supplies to show up and feed and water my team. I can accept drivers wandering off... I'll just put whoever has gear in until they show up.

That guy

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

Everything people describe as "Team Mom" just sounds like what I do as a team Captain. Am I doing it wrong?

Also how do you feel about Air Faire?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

Guildenstern wrote:

Everything people describe as "Team Mom" just sounds like what I do as a team Captain. Am I doing it wrong?

Also how do you feel about Air Faire?

We always say there are 3 non-race rolls that CAN also be filled by a driver:Team Captain, Team Mom, Crew Chief..  Mom makes sure people eat, drink, got to the bathroom before a stint and show up for it.  Crew chief owns the car at the track and makes sure it keeps running or directs getting it back back on the track.  Team  Captain "owns" it all but mostly makes the hard decisions when needed like "that jackhole is red misting and needs to get out of the car".

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

OnkelUdo wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

Everything people describe as "Team Mom" just sounds like what I do as a team Captain. Am I doing it wrong?

Also how do you feel about Air Faire?

We always say there are 3 non-race rolls that CAN also be filled by a driver:Team Captain, Team Mom, Crew Chief..  Mom makes sure people eat, drink, got to the bathroom before a stint and show up for it.  Crew chief owns the car at the track and makes sure it keeps running or directs getting it back back on the track.  Team  Captain "owns" it all but mostly makes the hard decisions when needed like "that jackhole is red misting and needs to get out of the car".


We've had a "Paddock Nanny."  It's a cross between the Team Mom and the Crew Chief above.  The Paddock Nanny is responsible for the paddock (duh).  Making sure that drivers are prepared for their stint, making sure tools/supplies are in their proper place, that people and supplies are ready for the next pit stop. (And making sure they are put away/replaced as necessary afterward.  The supplies, not the people.  Usually.). Frequently they are in charge of food (except for the picky eaters). Generally trying to counter the entropy of life.

Sometimes it's a driver, sometimes it's not, depending on who can support a race.  It's nice to have the single POC for the paddock area.

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

VKZ24 wrote:

I'll add that the best way to lose good friends is a fight over money.  Building a "$500 car" is a significant investment, and all involved need to be totally aware of this fact.  If you have an interested party who can't fork over $1K right from the get-go, he/she will most likely end up owing you money, and you will no longer be friends.

On my team we decided we would be friends first, teammates/car co-owners second.  We've been doing this for 10 years now, we're all still friends, so we must be doing something right.

You need to decide if the car will be owned by the team or by the captain and exactly how the finances will be split.  We use a Google Spreadsheet to track ALL costs, and ALL costs are SPLIT EQUALLY between the four owners. 

Also some agreement needs to be hashed out between all the the teammates as to what happens if things go south with the car due to driver error or something else.  Again, you and your buddies may no longer be buddies if he/she balls up the car the first stint because he/she drove like a jackass or made the engine go boom.  Who pays for what under what circumstances?  On our team if you break it, and it was 100% your fault, you pay for 100% of what it cost, and help with labor to fix it.  Can't afford to do that?  Don't break it, or find another team that hands out charity.  Racing incidents happen, but 99.9% of the time YOU KNOW if it was your fault, so man-up, admit it, and we'll move on from there with the repair.  If you think one of your teammates would lie, or just walk away from his/her major f*ck up, you don't need them on your team.

To add to OnkelUdo's list above...radios.  I don't know how teams get by without them.  You can get a decent setup for about $75 per driver these days, so just do it.


Build a car with your family. That way when things go south your screwed either way smile No seriously though, get your kids involved, that way you can pass off your entertainment as "I'm doing it for the kids". It's a win win and the kids love it.

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

That's how we got the car sanded before its paint job. That teammates kids now have learned to just avoid the garage.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

My brother, my kids, and his kids, nine years ago, all prepping the surface of the original Duff Beer race car for painting:

http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-dad-picture3829-paint229.jpg

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

65 (edited by MZAVARIN 2018-04-13 05:56 PM)

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

my daughter is always keen to lend a hand...and comes to all the races....

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/003008623257/media/103814214364/large/1523667240004/enhance

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Opus #28  (still can't win anything...)

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

Spank wrote:

One problem with an official or semi-official checklist is there are SO MANY different variations of participating in Lemons. Just look at all the advice/help/guidance offered to people in the newcomer's threads.

Having a looooong checklist of things to consider is tantamount to having a 3" thick rulebook for a newbie. It can help some and it can hurt others.

Some people are paralyzed when they don't have enough information. Some people are paralyzed when they have too much information.

When I tell someone they can build a tech-legal Lemons car for under $500, safety equipment included if they buy smart, someone else will come on and say a race-ready Lemons car can't be built for under $5,000. If I say 1.75"x.095 ERW and a tube-frames FIA approved race seat, and 12 year old radials off craigslist is fine for their 1984 Plymouth Colt, someone else will say they would never sit in anything that didn't have a Butler full-containment seat, 1.75x.120 DOM cage, and fresh date coded 190 treadwear Yokohama DaShiznit tires.

There are people who would NEVER EVER enter a hot track in one of my cars even if they were paid. Likewise, I have absolutely zero interest in sitting in a real racecar, and if someone offered me chance to turn laps in a Daytona Prototype car during an ALS event, I'd say "Thanks but I respectfully decline your offer" unless I could put a larger than life styrofoam replica of Judge Phi's head on the roof. Now, if they'd let me take the Moke out there for a few laps during an ALS event, I'd be all over that.

Point is, while we all have great intentions by offering advice. I think little tweeks of the existing resources (facebook twitter and instagram posts to the forum even to dredge up old, helpful info. Perhaps a hyperlink to a particular "Hot Forum Topic" at the end of a race  spam announcement. When we sign up as teams, we have the option the check or uncheck a box to make our team info made public. I have NO IDEA where that goes. But those who select that option can maybe be fed into some clickable map based on city / location for a "Would you like to be added to our Resources in your Area map to allow other teams to contact you for help?

Just today's 2 cents.

Everything Spank just said.

I've had a number of people email me via the forums, either based on where I'm located (Team DadBod, for example) or what car I drive (new teams from both coasts building old Mopars). But that requires reading enough of the forums that you happen to spot the right person and send them a message; not everyone is a forum junkie like me. Making that kind of connection easier would be pretty valuable.

And at the track: why not add a step to the end of Tech/BS inspection where you mark your team's location on a paddock map (that the judges print out and leave posted in the penalty box all weekend), and make a note of any equipment or expertise you might have available? The easiest way I've found to get what you need in a pinch is to send a teammate walking in every direction (or just ask Anton Lovett, if available). Streamlining that process would also be valuable, especially for the more introverted folk among us who might find it difficult to ask a dozen different strangers for help.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

67 (edited by moose72 2018-04-15 03:22 AM)

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

And without the help of Team EVR we would have never made it onto the track.  All it cost us was some brisket and welding gas.  Yes, we are the ones that showed up to last November's Houston race with a cage that was 66% complete.  This next November, class "b" okayness!

Skip "Mongo" L.
Team DadBod

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

I've seen it in this list 3 or 4 times and I'm going to repeat it. 

A way we could submit pictures of our cage to see if it is okay, or at least on the right track.  Hell even if there were a modest fee associated with the service it would be worth it.

We could have used this with our first car, and it would be useful now on car #2 that is a work in progress, and came with a cage.  It really sucks to lay down about $1500 in entry fees and still be unsure if you'll get the cage past inspection.  The stories in the Wrapups of some team that showed up and went through hell to get it on the track sunday afternoon, are fun to watch.  But as customers, we are paying for the chance to race wheel to wheel just like we always dreamed of and never thought we would be able to.  If we don't get some racing in it is a huge letdown.

I also like the new team ambassador idea.  I've never felt like the judges were all that approachable or interested in helping.  I could be wrong, but after 7 races, that's my impression.

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

ukemike wrote:

I also like the new team ambassador idea.  I've never felt like the judges were all that approachable or interested in helping.  I could be wrong, but after 7 races, that's my impression.

Do you believe that the judges have the time to help 120 teams with their mechanical issues up and beyond their other duties?

If each team took 10 minutes of help, that's an additional 20 judge hours of work.  It's up to you to bring a car that's absolutely going to pass tech and reasonably ready to run the race.  My personal ethos is that I'm spending thousands of dollars and cubic man hours of labor to run that race -  I didn't do all that work to fail tech.  To me, the cage is the easiest part - does it look like one of the ones in 'how not to fail tech sheet' and is it welded correctly. 

My advice is to find a local team that has some experience and have them check over your car.  It might cost a case of beer or a bottle of whiskey, but it's money well spent.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: ATTN: CAPTAINS, I WANT SOME INPUT

Update: I've talked with the other HQ people and since we already have an awesome tool here with the Forums and with lots of knowledgeable Lemons people on it, this is going to be the first place I refer Lemons team captains seeking help. That saves us the trouble of building a matchmaking tool from scratch and hopefully also make the Forum a little more active, too.

Most of you already do this, but check out the Lemons Newcomers section regularly when you're here. I made a short sticky post for those newcomers that will hopefully make these topics easier to sort/use.

There are more changes coming, naturally, but this is an easy piece we can implement now.

eric@24hoursoflemons.com