Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Fishah wrote:

I'm sure it's more than that with driver, fuel and ice.

Ok that #2900 that i quoted for my car is with the heaviest driver(me), full fuel/fluids, and ice.

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Fishah wrote:

On a track like Gingerman, you could go much more aggressive. Our car has a Ford 8.8 IRS rear, so we run 3.73 on short tracks and 3.27 on long ones. The difference in acceleratation compared to the competition is very noticeable.

Also don't understestimate the get-up-and-go of some of those small cars smile

We split the difference and run 3.55. Only see 5th on the big straight at Gingerman with 225/50-16.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Hanger 18 Customs wrote:
Fishah wrote:

On a track like Gingerman, you could go much more aggressive. Our car has a Ford 8.8 IRS rear, so we run 3.73 on short tracks and 3.27 on long ones. The difference in acceleratation compared to the competition is very noticeable.

Also don't understestimate the get-up-and-go of some of those small cars smile

Maybe, but we are not comparing apples to apples here. I assume you are referring to the 928? I am going to guess that you are at least a couple hundred pounds heavier and run a taller tire. Both factors in determining which rear gear to pick with tire diameter having a far greater affect than weight. Just figuring on the tire diameter alone based on the stock mustang 5.0L tire size which is 25.7" the difference is 3 inches in diameter.(22.7 is our actual dia. if you do the math) this is a 13.2% change which puts our actual ratio at 3.7:1.

I am not underestimating the get up and go of the smaller cars. After owning(many),daily driving, racing,and working on customers Fox Mustangs over the years I know this car isn't making anywhere near the power it should be given the combination of parts.

Some of the question may also be, are you exiting the turn as fast as they are? If they have a positive delta to you already as you start stepping on the gas, you can still be playing catch up.

Also an 83 flat tappet unless you have some fancy cams and heads, isn't gonna get you the kind of HP you think you should have. Especially if it's tired. 250 HP is H.O. hydraulic lifter kinda numbers. The best they were making fresh with all the crappy 83 emissions was 170 on a real good day.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

^^^ This. Corner-exit speed and braking are everything in road racing.

eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

The extreme example of this was the Charger, of course. I watched it struggle to not get passed by the Cutlass Ciera (among many other slow cars) down the front straight because their corner exit was about 3 mph.

eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Yea some of my drivers had some "Opinions" about their particular technique of "struggling not to get passed" early in the day on Saturday.

I believe "all over the damn track" was used on more than one occasion.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

Guildenstern wrote:

Yea some of my drivers had some "Opinions" about their particular technique of "struggling not to get passed" early in the day on Saturday.

I believe "all over the damn track" was used on more than one occasion.

At least it wasn't hard to see the house-sized car painted bright yellow.

eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

therood wrote:

^^^ This. Corner-exit speed and braking are everything in road racing.

Braking is relatively far down the diminishing returns scale. 

Unless by "braking" you mean "having brakes that reliably stop the car lap after lap", in which case I agree with you completely.

Corner exit is good though.  Mid-corner speed matters too.  And corner entry sets you up for the other two.  Which I guess brings us back to braking.

But anyway, making time under the brakes is risky, particularly in crapcan endurance racing.  It is all about margin, people.  And corner exit speed. 

I know some very good very successful drivers that disagree with me about the braking thing, by the way.

59

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

definetly making sure your brakes last atleast a full day is definetly important.  No amount of late braking will make up the time you lose changing your brakes.

From what I always was told, exit speed is your biggest gain since that will affect your speed the whole next straight.  Corner speed will help exit speed it would normally be next and your braking being the least important cause it only effects the time for the braking and not anything afterwards.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

60 (edited by VKZ24 2018-07-11 11:16 AM)

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

BoB wrote:

From what I always was told, exit speed is your biggest gain since that will affect your speed the whole next straight.

It's called slow in, fast out, and is a tried and true technique.  The premise being if you over cook the corner by braking too late, you blow the turn-in, miss the apex, and are slower coming out of the corner and onto the next straight.

I've personally found that trying to beat someone to the corner by late braking is just too risky.  So unless I have a huge braking advantage, like lightweight Integra vs. heavy Crown Vic, I just avoid it.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

61

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

therood wrote:

The extreme example of this was the Charger, of course. I watched it struggle to not get passed by the Cutlass Ciera (among many other slow cars) down the front straight because their corner exit was about 3 mph.

BTW I could have passed the charger earlier but didn't trust them to out brake them going into the corner.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

VKZ24 wrote:

I've personally found that trying to beat someone to the corner by late braking is just too risky.  So unless I have a huge braking advantage, like lightweight Integra vs. heavy Crown Vic, I just avoid it.

I generally agree but we do have a significant braking advantage over a large chunk of the field in the Dustbuster and its worst asset is actually its turn in (holds a line well but initial turn in is still sloppy).  In our case, very tight corners after a long straight are occasionally our only place to pass a better handling car that is close'ish on acceleration in the straights. 

Bob's car is a great example because there are two spots at Gingerman where we can pass the A-bodysafely (with no traffic) using a seriously late braking technique.  Do I advocate it...only if, after long battle you just can't get past the car AND you are confident you can keep that lead you just took...so no.  Have I done it...once and ended up loosing that "lead" shortly after we caught up to slower traffic.

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

OnkelUdo wrote:

Do I advocate it...only if, after long battle you just can't get past the car AND you are confident you can keep that lead you just took...so no.

Generally speaking, the big cars with V8s (Impala/Caprice/Crown VIc) are good on the straights, but terrible in the turns.  To get by the ones I can't seem to out brake safely, I use the pick-n-roll technique for those battles.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Does paint count towards the budget?

VKZ24 wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:

Do I advocate it...only if, after long battle you just can't get past the car AND you are confident you can keep that lead you just took...so no.

Generally speaking, the big cars with V8s (Impala/Caprice/Crown VIc) are good on the straights, but terrible in the turns.  To get by the ones I can't seem to out brake safely, I use the pick-n-roll technique for those battles.

Oh, using a slower traffic is 90% of our strategy for passing in the dry.  In the rain, we just walk away from them since our braking marker changes little. 

In general, we do not try to compete with the fast B or A cars but we can pick off our share of the slow B cars in the dry by using our superior braking.if we can "surprise" them by waiting until they have started their turn-in before starting to braking then keeping the outside line.  Would never do it on a narrow corner but many Civic or 2.0 VW has been shocked to see us passing on the outside when we were two car lengths behind as they started their turn.

Every car is different in their strengths but as long as you are following the ethos of no endurance race is won in one turn you can occasionally pull a rabbit out of hat.