Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

Mulry wrote:

I'm not a ham radio guy (not that there's anything wrong with that), but here's what I've learned. All 16 of the GMRS channels use the exact same frequencies, regardless of the radio manufacturer. For example, channel 1 on a Motorola radio and channel 1 on a Midland radio are both going to be running on 462.5625 MHz (which makes these UHF frequencies, for those who care). Same is true on all the other 15 channels.

What differentiates them between manufacturers is the privacy codes and (possibly) encryption algorithms. So when two teams are using channel 1 but on different privacy codes, they can't hear what the other one is saying, but the frequency is jammed up (stepped on).

At least I think that's how it works.

Sounds completely plausible.  Maybe I need to find a way to ramp up our GMRS's power from 5 watts to 10 watts.  If you work for the FCC, I didn't just say that.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

Google, linear amplifier.

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

Antenna improvements make a huge difference in GMRS radio performance. Getting your antenna out of the car and onto the roof will probably quadruple your signal strength, enabling you to be the one who steps on the other teams. eBay is full of ex-cop UHF mobile antennas that work fine for 460MHZ, and some older GMRS walkie-talkies have detachable stub antennas that reveal an SMA connector. That means you can buy better rubber-duckie-style antennas for your pit/spotter radios, then mount a cop mobile antenna on the race car and hook it to the radio via the appropriate SMA adapter.

When I rigged the Black Metal V8olvo for GMRS radios back in '08, I used Midland G-11 radios. They have detachable antennas and worked pretty well. It's definitely illegal to use external antennas on FRS, but it may be OK on GMRS. Of course, all GMRS users are supposed to be licensed anyway, so most of you are already subject to FCC cavity search.

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

MurileeMartin wrote:

Getting your antenna out of the car and onto the roof will probably quadruple your signal strength, enabling you to be the one who steps on the other teams.

I agree, which is why I mounted our radio to a bracket on the main hoop allowing the antenna to penetrate about 3" or so above the roof line.  Like this:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u9/VKZ24/P1020231.jpg


MurileeMartin wrote:

eBay is full of ex-cop UHF mobile antennas that work fine for 460MHZ, and some older GMRS walkie-talkies have detachable stub antennas that reveal an SMA connector. That means you can buy better rubber-duckie-style antennas for your pit/spotter radios, then mount a cop mobile antenna on the race car and hook it to the radio via the appropriate SMA adapter.search.

We have the newer Midland GXT-900 GMRS and I don't think the antenna is detachable.  Howver if someone knows it could be detached and coupled to something similar to what you are saying, I'm all ears.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/11/img_4626.jpg

You can also hack a $2.99 CB microphone to work with the G-11.

31 (edited by Mulry 2010-02-12 11:25 AM)

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

VKZ24, that is my favorite radio mounting method ever.

With GMRS, you are allowed to go up to 50 watts. I don't know how you would do it, but it's allowed under the FCC regs.

It's worth noting that if you lurk on eBay for long enough, you can find a lot of used radio stuff at not insufferable prices. I got a used ex-Sprint Cup Racing Electronics dual radio car harness for our radio setup for something like $30 early last summer and it works just fine. New it would have been well north of $120. But it is a PITA to piece together the entire thing, so starting with that well-recommended Midland setup would be highly advisable.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

32 (edited by MurileeMartin 2010-02-12 11:34 AM)

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

You do understand that 60% of teams don't have their members organized well enough to actually use their radios, right? I know this because most miscreants in the Penalty Box are unable to reach their teammates on their radios, most often due to the fact that the whole team spaced on whose turn it was to man the pit/spotter radio. Reminds me of the (many) teams who obsess over fueling equipment that will save them 5 seconds during refueling... but don't have their replacement driver suited up when it's his or her turn.

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

MurileeMartin wrote:

You do understand that 60% of teams don't have their members organized well enough to actually use their radios, right? I know this because most miscreants in the Penalty Box are unable to reach their teammates on their radios, most often due to the fact that the whole team spaced on whose turn it was to man the pit/spotter radio. Reminds me of the (many) teams who obsess over fueling equipment that will save them 5 seconds during refueling... but don't have their replacement driver suited up when it's his or her turn.

SHHHHHHHHHHHH...

Don't tell them what they are doing wrong.

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

34 (edited by LeCoq Racing 2010-02-12 12:22 PM)

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u9/V … 020231.jpg


That is excellent.

35 (edited by jw33 2010-02-12 02:07 PM)

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

We used a CB before and it worked pretty good, but we ended up breaking the mic when the driver would get excited and throw it down inside the car. It worked well enough to get flag information out and you could talk back and forth while under caution.

This time around we are using the Motorola Talkabout MR350R radios and an ebay headset.

http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN … adio_US_EN

No track tesing yet, but I have walked about 3/4 of a mile away through the neighborhood and the radio works just fine. The really cool thing about the MR350R is that it has a mini-USB power jack so that you can run it out of your cig-lighter with a common cellphone charger. It also has the jack for an external PTT headset. We're going to mount ours just like above on the main hoop and have the antenna sticking out through the roof. Now if we could hack the radio and get some kind of external antenna setup, that would awesome.

Here's an ebay link to our headset.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi … 6863998007

Comes with a PTT button on the harness with a volume control and an external PTT button you can mount on the wheel/shifter/seat/ect.  Everyone on the team will get the headset and I paid about $50 for the radios brand new shipped to my door.

Shake and Bake
America, birthplace of the missionary position. You're welcome...

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

FYI for anyone running Shannonville in the other series, GMRS doesn't require a license in Canada...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

MurileeMartin wrote:

You do understand that 60% of teams don't have their members organized well enough to actually use their radios, right? I know this because most miscreants in the Penalty Box are unable to reach their teammates on their radios, most often due to the fact that the whole team spaced on whose turn it was to man the pit/spotter radio. Reminds me of the (many) teams who obsess over fueling equipment that will save them 5 seconds during refueling... but don't have their replacement driver suited up when it's his or her turn.

Pre-planning helps a TON with almost everything.  Everything we didn't test before the race failed.   The stuff like our radios worked well and our pit stops/driver changes were excellent because we practiced for about an hour one day in my driveway.  Most of ours were between the 2:00 to 2:30 range because we were ready.  That included driver swap, radio hook-up and adding 6 gallons of fuel.  By comparison we watched one team take a full 6 minutes to change drivers and add 5 gallons of fuel.   It is possible we could do ours even faster, but mistakes would likely happen so we were happy with what we did.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

For those of you about to race at MSR Houston, here's some specific info:

The Midland GT100bp4 combined with the motorcycle helmet PTT system we could hear on both sides (car and pit) easily under yellow in all portions of the track.  At racing speed with car noise we could only hear each other on the front side of the track.  On the really sharp turn at the back of the track (called Diamond something) the driver heard nothing.  Our set up had no special mods and the radio was mounted low in the cage (not ideal) and without any fancy-pants antenna mods.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

MurileeMartin wrote:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/j … g_4626.jpg

You can also hack a $2.99 CB microphone to work with the G-11.

Phil, having a hand held mic isn't allowed though, right? Any insights into how I could rig a helmet mic from CB/cheapo ebay parts? The ears part is easy, just blast the audio out through some car speakers. But getting the driver's voice into the CB base unit is making me scratch my head a bit. I guess I could just do some "sperimentin". Also, are marine band radios inherently better for some reason? Are you not allowed to chatter on a regular land based CB? Or would I just be earning cool points for "breakin the LAW"?

We also have a set of Motorola T6220 talkabouts we've used in previous races. Has anyone tried an "ear bone mic" setup before? This ad is pretty convincing and the price is definitely right. Does it look like these would do the job?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi … 0259262062

Just another crappy BMW and moto-powered MR2: http://www.facebook.com/BlackIronRacing
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Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

LeCoq Racing wrote:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u9/V … 020231.jpg


That is excellent.

I too, think this is fantastic.  Looks like I have some more welding to do

Bloomington, IN
We'll bring Beer!  Motorsports
Team Fiery Death! #0 2009 Lamest Day(65th), 2010 American Irony(24th), 2010 Detroit Bull(4th),2012 Capitol Offense (8th) 2012 American Irony (11 th), 2013 Capitol Offense (3rd) 2013 Chubba Chedder (4th, Judge Choice!) Now sadly part of a scrap pile. 
Toothless Racing Deadbeats #110 2011 Summit Point (61st) Currently being rebuilt into the new car!

41 (edited by MurileeMartin 2010-02-13 09:52 AM)

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

gielamonster wrote:

Phil, having a hand held mic isn't allowed though, right?

You can have a handheld mic, as long as you're willing to forget about retrieving it when it falls to the floor of the car during a race. What you can't have is a walkie-talkie loose in the cabin; we don't want racers fumbling around with their Radio Shack Space Patrols and causing wrecks.

In reality, pit-to-car communication is way more useful than car-to-pit, so it's no huge limitation if you can only grab your CB mic when you're under caution. The main thing is to be able to yell "Hey, you idiot! They been a-wavin' black flags at you for the last 20 minutes!" or "Yo, you're on fire!" at your driver.

Re: Will a CB radio work for car communications?

You can always use the Golden Age of NASCAR hand signal system as you pass the pits....hand to the roof, loose...hand on the door sill, tight. Clenched fist/middle finger, I'm gonna kill the drug addict who set up the car...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....