Re: Radiator fans or not?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6uIjG7hLcOw/S2hjcZRw-nI/AAAAAAAAAM8/JAkvnDtki2I/s400/Howmuchradiator.jpg

Can't remember where I found this but useful

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Radiator fans or not?

jimeditorial wrote:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6uIjG7hLcOw/S2hjc … diator.jpg

Can't remember where I found this but useful

I don't see anything on there for a rotary.


When we first started the motor on our car it flung the mechanical fan across the shop (only two bolts holding it on, sheared both) so we had to add an electric fan for those slow speed/idle times.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Since that's kinda small on my super-hi-res 1920x1200 17" laptop screen, I've decided to type it all out.
Fortunately I'm a fast typer. neutral

How Much Radiator?
The following formula can be used to determine a reasonable starting point for radiator volume for a given vehicle.
Start with 2 cubic inches of core for every cubic inch of engine. Increase or decrease that ratio by the following factors:
ADD:
.1 for a vertical core radiator
.1 for an inline engine
.1 for small trailer  towing
.1 for three-row radiator
.1 for double evaporators
.2 for outside temperatures over 105°F
.2 for medium trailer towing
.2 for a small engine in a heavy car
.2 for fan diameter less than 90% radiator core's smaller dimension
.3 for air conditioning
.3 for no fan shroud
.3 for an antique car with small engine compartment
.4 for large trailer towing
.6 for a diesel engine

SUBTRACT:
.1 for remote transmission cooler (not in the radiator)
.1 for manual transmission
.1 for single-row radiator
.1 for a V6 engine
.2 for a pickup truck engine compartment
.2 for outside temperatures less than 90°F
.2 for a full fan shroud
.2 for a horizontal-flow radiator
.3 for a large engine in a light vehicle

To check the formula against a late-model car, we checked a Mustang with a 302ci engine and air conditioning. The basic formula says 2x302=604ci of radiator core. But the formula must be factored for air conditioning (add .3), temperatures over 105°F (add .2), and a horizontal-flow radiator (subtract .2). The corrected formula would be 2.3x302=698ci of radiator core. The actual core (not the radiator but the core dimension) on the mustang measures 18x24x1.5, or 648ci of core.
The formula may not be perfect (should we allow for a large engine in a light vehicle?), though as you can see, it's a good starting point.

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Everything we do on our Lemons car is towards reliability because if you're not running you don't have a chance of winning.  We started out with a clutch fan on our car but decided that they go bad so we then went to a fixed fan which worked fine.  Then we tried to out think ourselves and put an electric fan on it and it didn't cool as well and one of our drivers "forgot" about it during a red flag killing the battery.  We had to be towed in and it cost us several laps.

Bottom line, keep the fan because of: lining up to go out, caution laps, red flags, and many more reasons.  We prefer a fixed non-electric fan as it removes driver error and can't go wrong.*

*Although saying this we had our fan belt flips at Thunderhill causing the water pump to sieze, overheat the car and blow a head gasket.

Team Oly Express
Current car - 1964.5 Plymouth Barracuda, Former car - Size Does Matter 1967 Plymouth Fury
07 IOE Winner Thunderhill, 12 IOE Winner Sears Pointless
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Team- … 4609354407

30 (edited by Buzz Killington 2010-02-02 03:44 PM)

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Tyrannosullyrex wrote:
jimeditorial wrote:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6uIjG7hLcOw/S2hjc … diator.jpg

Can't remember where I found this but useful

I don't see anything on there for a rotary.

i believe the standard recipe conversion for rotaries is to double the cooling.  wink

sac02 wrote:

As to the second part, how did everyone in this thread come to think I was wanting to take the fans off to save a couple pounds?  Did I ever even remotely alude to that? 

If anyone read the entire post, they will see that I asked because I was wondering if removing the fan would help the engine run cooler, since flow acros the radiator at speed will be better without the fan.  In other words, since I didn't know how long the car may be idling/driving slowly, I was asking about removal of the fans to increase reliabilty by increasing cooling, weight never came into it.

sac02 wrote:

Reading comprehension much?  Read my post directly above yours...

Nice ramble though.  Hey you kids - off my lawn!

1.  ease back on the caffeine there, Kinison.  people are screwing with you,  that's part of the deal with Lemons.

2.  related to #1...you sound like you're perilously close to taking this whole thing seriously.  that means you will have zero fun, and likely will end up prominently featured in threads with names like "my public apology" and "ZOMG, the real story about how Jonny and Phil RUINED our weekend!!11!!!!"

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Re: Radiator fans or not?

A guy at the track actually suggested I remove our non-functioning ac compressor and make some sort of half-assed way to get belt tension with a fixed wheel, like I was going to screw with that and take something that was bulletproof and make it a failure prone mess to save 10 llbs - I mean I'd like to lose it but not make my serp. belt a disaster.

----------
Scott
Speed Racer Mach5 Mustang
Houston TX

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Stovebolt wrote:

A guy at the track actually suggested I remove our non-functioning ac compressor and make some sort of half-assed way to get belt tension with a fixed wheel, like I was going to screw with that and take something that was bulletproof and make it a failure prone mess to save 10 llbs - I mean I'd like to lose it but not make my serp. belt a disaster.

get a shorter belt

Re: Radiator fans or not?

an interesting observation I had in the 928 Estate with only the aux AC fan wired to a switch inside the cockpit....  Granted it was a cool day we were testing on....but I tried a couple laps with no fan at all.....temps were around 1/2 on the gauge which is about 185F.....then I did some laps with the fan on all the time at full voltage (the only way it works)...& the temps DID do down about 10F....to about 175F....which I found quite surprising since we NEVER go below about 45mph on this track and our average speeds are above 75mph with peaks of 115+.....

Of course the instant you come in the pits you need the fan....since the temps climb quickly if you don't

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Radiator fans or not?

forddragracer wrote:
Stovebolt wrote:

A guy at the track actually suggested I remove our non-functioning ac compressor and make some sort of half-assed way to get belt tension with a fixed wheel, like I was going to screw with that and take something that was bulletproof and make it a failure prone mess to save 10 llbs - I mean I'd like to lose it but not make my serp. belt a disaster.

get a shorter belt

Yep.
Take a piece of string, run it around the pullies (remember, grooved pullies see the bottom of the belt, smooth pullies the top) and measure it out. Then go to Vatozone and tell the mongoloid behind the counter you need a belt 56.5 inches long or whatever, and watch his head explode as he insists that you need to tell him what year/make/model/engine the car is.
Or, go to Napa or something and tell them what length you need and get the correct belt the first time.

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Pendejo wrote:

Then pull of the carb or fuel injection (whatever you are running) and just stick the fuel line right down the intake and hold it in place with a few zip ties. With this easy intake mod done you have easily removed most of your failure items and who needs a ECU anyways(more un-needed weight) With all this done hit the ignition and watch that motor have the fastest revving most glorious 15 to 20 seconds of it's life.

Does that really work? There are some people that I don't like that I may have to do this "fuel system" modification to.

Pendejo Engineering "Captain" - 1991 Alfa 164
1983 Shaguar XJ-S V-12 "The Two Ton Miata"
1995 Mercedes S600 V-12  - First car ever CLAIMED by JAY!
1980 Maserati Quattroporte - Judge's Choice