Topic: How would you weld this?

I ordered a cage from RollCageComponents for a car Jim already had on file (96 impreza), and we're about to weld up the cage. The main hoop will be positioned right up against where the floor pan raises for the rear seats. The cage doesn't sit flush against sides of the car - there's ~1.5" gap between the base of the main hoop and the door sill.

https://i.imgur.com/26vB13Yl.jpg

Once we get a spreader plate down, I don't think we'll be able to get a full 360 degree weld here. We should be able to weld a vertical seam towards the inside of the car where it butts up against the raised floor pan. Towards the outside where there is only ~1.5 inches of space, there isn't enough space to weld a vertical seam. We considered forming the spreader plates, welding the hoop to the spreader plates, and then welding the spreader plate in place - but then the spreader plates wouldn't be welded to the frame behind the hoop.

How could we weld this up and stay compliant with the rules?

Re: How would you weld this?

shorten the main hoop and put it on the raised area

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3 (edited by chaase 2022-07-20 02:01 PM)

Re: How would you weld this?

derekste wrote:

shorten the main hoop and put it on the raised area

^This

OR

You can make a plinth box to raise the main hoop up so its level and weld it all in one big piece.

Something like this...
https://www.facebook.com/Wolfmetalworks … 839910626/

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: How would you weld this?

I like plinth boxes because they let you weld the top of the cage without cutting holes in the roof. Mock up on the boxes, remove them and drop the core cage, weld the tops, put back up, weld in/to plinth boxes.

Another option may be to weld in your spreader, but also weld in a spreader to the vertical surface. Then you can add a vertical bead to the vertical spreader plate. But I would email Pagel/HQ before picking this route to make sure this is actually ok.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
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Re: How would you weld this?

chaase wrote:

You can make a plinth box to raise the main hoop up so its level and weld it all in one big piece.

Is a plinth box within the rules? I didn't see anything like that outlined in the rules or "how not to fail" doc.

TheEngineer wrote:

Another option may be to weld in your spreader, but also weld in a spreader to the vertical surface. Then you can add a vertical bead to the vertical spreader plate. But I would email Pagel/HQ before picking this route to make sure this is actually ok.

That was our original idea, but because there's only ~1.5" of space between the door sill and the hoop, we couldn't weld a continuous vertical bead on both sides.

6 (edited by chaase 2022-07-20 04:32 PM)

Re: How would you weld this?

traviswolfe wrote:
chaase wrote:

You can make a plinth box to raise the main hoop up so its level and weld it all in one big piece.

Is a plinth box within the rules? I didn't see anything like that outlined in the rules or "how not to fail" doc.
.

As far as I know, plinth boxes are legal. You are just building up the floor so as long as it’s solid and properly welded it should be fine. You can always confirm w/Pagel.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: How would you weld this?

Plinth boxes are used all the time, just do them correctly. You still need to put a base spreader plate down on the floor, or any surface that a piece of metal from the box will touch with it's thin edge. Then build the box from strong material. I like to throw a small piece of roll cage tubing inside the box so there is a solid load path through, but I don't think that's completely required. I can try to find some pictures of ours tonight. Never had an issue at tech.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: How would you weld this?

chaase wrote:
traviswolfe wrote:
chaase wrote:

You can make a plinth box to raise the main hoop up so its level and weld it all in one big piece.

Is a plinth box within the rules? I didn't see anything like that outlined in the rules or "how not to fail" doc.
.

As far as I know, plinth boxes are legal. You are just building up the floor so as long as it’s solid and properly welded it should be fine. You can always confirm w/Pagel.

The plinth box I've seen failed was not complete. It was more like a plinth tunnel and the vertical element was not perpendicular (or even close).

That said, I'd second mocking it up and then asking Pagel for input.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: How would you weld this?

Evil Genius wrote:

They have to be totally boxed,  front, back all around, welded 360 degrees  with no burn through and be at least 1/8" thick


-John

Here is your answer.

Re: How would you weld this?

It's important that you land the plinth on a spreader plate at least 1/8" thick. 

https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=38953

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP … RjQ01OVXVn

Re: How would you weld this?

It seems simpler to just cut the hoop and move it back the 2" unless there is something in the way.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner