Re: poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it
Looks like you made the right call....Great Stuff....Thanks for sharing the pics
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it
Looks like you made the right call....Great Stuff....Thanks for sharing the pics
...we thought we were on fire...
No, that was the Avanti.
Good seeing you there!
Major success for an Italian Lemons race car! Well done sir.
Ok, again!
We were back at ORP with the same engine, didn't touch it at all from the last race. We had all sorts of problems but again, self inflicted. We can't even blame uncle Enzo for our issues.
3 out of the 4 bolts holding the engine to the transmission vanished, leading us to wonder "why do we keep having to adjust the clutch slave cylinder to push farther?". That childlike wonder was shattered when the flywheel finally contacted the bellhousing and the engine "seized". Couldn't turn it by hand, and given some overheating problems we had earlier, we assumed the worst. So on Saturday afternoon after doing like 7 laps, we started disassembling it because, we're here and we're going to have to disassemble it anyway if the motor is toast. But after taking the axles out I look up and see the flywheel wedged into the side of the bellhousing. I look around some more and suddenly all the symptoms click in my tired, probably dehydrated brain. So we put it all back together and do 110 laps on Sunday, for an almost but not quite DFL class C finish.
Car felt incredibly slow, but our best lap was better than last year. Brake upgrades worked well, so I wasn't contemplating my mortality at turn 8 every lap. I had a titanic battle with the beetle powered 911 and the peugot 505, and I crashed into a mustang. Also got home and unloaded the car, and realized the O2 sensor was unplugged the entire time. Cool!
Bought another X1/9 to help with our swap plans. We can work on the swap while leaving the racecar in one piece. A neat thing about the X1/9 is that they're all $500. That's right, every single one. I should buy 20 of them and start a spec series.
After getting home from ORP and contemplating how goddamn slow the car was (couldn't accelerate up the uphill parts of the track), I started cutting up an X1/9 to mock up our 98 car's ultimate fighting form.
can you get file fit or oversize rings? I'd just clean it up and run it. If it is a little smokey just check the pugs after every race. Since it isn't a SBC, I'm guessing a bore and oversized pistons/rings are not available for peanuts.
Regarding the OG engine, we haven't had any issues with oil consumption in either race. Though compression numbers are consistent, they are consistently low, at about 130psi vs 160psi for a healthy lampredi. We stuck a catch can in and have been checking it, and there's minimal blowby, so we haven't had any smoking issues at all.
the reason for the swap is just because 1) it's a bad idea and 2) that engine has been sitting in my shop for years (note the buildup of saw dust) and it's time to either use it for something or toss it 3) the current motor only put out around 70hp when it was new, and compression numbers and butt dyno make me think maybe 20 of those horses escaped.
In a straight drag race between the beetle powered porsche 996 (which iirc is like 2200 pounds, and the X1/9 should be around 1900) our car was marginally faster, but not by much. Their fastest lap was 1s up on us, but likely because they're better drivers. In any case, the car is comparable to a beetle powered 996, hence the beginnings of a swap.
I dont recognize what engine that is that you are going to swap in, but if it was me I would want an engine I could easily find in a local junkyard and get parts for on a Saturday night.
If you wanted to stay in the Fiat family, the Fiat Twin Cam engine would be awesome.
It's a 2.8L VR6. Found in all sorts of junkyard grade VW products.
I don't think it makes sense to keep it fiat due to junkyard availability. K20 would be the best choice but we're not going for best. Also everyone in the fiat world swaps in the K20, but I haven't seen anyone do a VR6. Are there good reasons for that? Probably. Do I know what they are? Not yet. But soon I'll know.
Fresh rings is a good start. oversize rings are possible, but need to cut the lip on the cylinder wall to clear them in. I do have good success rate with just putting a fresh set and putting fresh bearings. It does not give the max longevity as if full rebuild, but it seals it, adds to oil pressure and works just fine.
Before digging into it, probably good idea to check with leak down, or do the oil in cylinder trick to check compression leakage.
In most high mileage cars, it's the buildup on the back of a valve that cuts down on the power.
As a fellow confused vr6 swapper, I have heard that the middle cylinders get warm. Oil coolers have been advised.
As a fellow confused vr6 swapper, I have heard that the middle cylinders get warm. Oil coolers have been advised.
Thanks for the tip. Yea the stock one sucks even on a street car, my corrado regularly sees oil temps of over 220 from light use. Do you have one that you're happy with for racing?
We're thinking we'll probably run two radiators. We oversized the existing one up front (it's from a scirocco) but it will be insufficient for the vr6, so we'll stick another one in the back.
DirtyDuc wrote:As a fellow confused vr6 swapper, I have heard that the middle cylinders get warm. Oil coolers have been advised.
Thanks for the tip. Yea the stock one sucks even on a street car, my corrado regularly sees oil temps of over 220 from light use. Do you have one that you're happy with for racing?
We're thinking we'll probably run two radiators. We oversized the existing one up front (it's from a scirocco) but it will be insufficient for the vr6, so we'll stick another one in the back.
I have one from what I seem to recall was a Miata, that'll probably be my first stop. I don't think it has a thermostat, but I'm not sure that's really a concern on a racecar-thing that gets warmed up before being beaten.
RX7s have large DIY junkyard available oil coolers with built-in in thermostat. Racing Beat and/or Mazdatrix has fittings to convert to AN/JIC.
RX7s have large DIY junkyard available oil coolers with built-in in thermostat. Racing Beat and/or Mazdatrix has fittings to convert to AN/JIC.
Volvo 740 Turbos have an oil cooler too. Sandwich plate has thermostat and uses common 3/4-16 thread. It does use 1/2 BSP threads on the cooler, but there are -AN adapters.
just going to leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOmuPoZ-ObQ
just going to leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOmuPoZ-ObQ
taking a page from the Priority Fail book of domination, I see
taking a page from the Priority Fail book of domination, I see
I trust it worked out so well for them that they were banned from the series after too much winning. Much like the blue Corrado (which was 1.8t powered but we can ignore that detail).
This is how it sits right now. Last touched it maybe 5 months ago, but after the race this weekend, I'll be able to cut the white car up and transfer it all over. And then the domination will truly begin.
I don’t have anything useful to add, but wanted to say thank you for posting up pics and results of your “rebuild”. I’m dealing with a fairly similar condition engine (rust in cylinder walls) and really wanna hone it and send it and this thread is making me feel much better about it! Where else but Lemons can you accumulate a log if “how much rust is too much rust to hone out in your garage “rebuilt” engine haha.
I don’t have anything useful to add, but wanted to say thank you for posting up pics and results of your “rebuild”. I’m dealing with a fairly similar condition engine (rust in cylinder walls) and really wanna hone it and send it and this thread is making me feel much better about it! Where else but Lemons can you accumulate a log if “how much rust is too much rust to hone out in your garage “rebuilt” engine haha.
Glad I could help lower your standards. It helps to also lower you expectations as well.
Car has been cut up. Waiting on a few bits and pieces and then the engine can go in.
doot doot
As owner of a mid engine swapped street car ( V8 Corvair) I have concerns about the proposed cooling system.
Amongst us with swapped Corvairs, there are 2 groups, ones with front mount radiators, others with rear, the guys with rear have the least luck keeping cool while moving, air is much harder to manage in the back... Have yo considered rad in the front?
Just trying to help.
There is a rad in the front, we just added an extra one in the back for more capacity. The small rad is hooked into the heater core loop. We're space limited up front so we decided to add another. It won't get as much airflow as the front one, but we are planning to add a duct to it over the top of the car.
Do the swapped corvairs run two rads or do you mean the guys that have issues just have a single one in the back? Because that would be challenging.
There is a rad in the front, we just added an extra one in the back for more capacity. The small rad is hooked into the heater core loop. We're space limited up front so we decided to add another. It won't get as much airflow as the front one, but we are planning to add a duct to it over the top of the car.
Do the swapped Corvairs run two rads or do you mean the guys that have issues just have a single one in the back? Because that would be challenging.
That's a second rad? Awesome!!!
In rear or mid engine V8 Corvair land, we only run one rad, some folks, for ease/packaging reasons, attempt rear rads, it can be done, but it is far from the easy button, airflow dynamics go rabbit hole quickly.
rozap_ wrote:There is a rad in the front, we just added an extra one in the back for more capacity. The small rad is hooked into the heater core loop. We're space limited up front so we decided to add another. It won't get as much airflow as the front one, but we are planning to add a duct to it over the top of the car.
Do the swapped Corvairs run two rads or do you mean the guys that have issues just have a single one in the back? Because that would be challenging.
That's a second rad? Awesome!!!
In rear or mid engine V8 Corvair land, we only run one rad, some folks, for ease/packaging reasons, attempt rear rads, it can be done, but it is far from the easy button, airflow dynamics go rabbit hole quickly.
Makes sense. Current plan is to make a shitty fiberglass engine cover that has a duct on top of the car to feed the radiator and oil cooler. Process for actually making this is TBD...
Some more progress pics. Swivel AN lines freak me out...i feel like they're just going to leak?
Display for the dash. This will have an stm32 which is reading the serial telemetry output from the speeduino.
Wires are happening.
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → poll: Should we put new rings in this and run it