• From: Merrick, NY
  • Registered: 2009-05-13
  • Posts: 2,155

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

EBudman wrote:

From what I've seen, working on a Lemons car is more dangerous than actually driving one.... you might as well require neck restraints on the expressway, 'cause the risk is about the same or greater IMO.  I'd trade the neck brace requirement for a window net in a heartbeat.

Eric

For some reason this totally reminds me of a story from college.

I had to do a project for my Technical Writing class about how something worked, from the R&D forward, so of course (being it was 2001) I chose the HANS device.  We had to not only write a study but do a 10 minute presentation in front of the class.  We had this older guy in class who felt the need to show off his smarts all the time, but he was really really wrong basically all of the time.  When it got time for questions he asks an elaborate question about how this should be adapted for normal road use.  I cut him some slack for maybe not paying attention to the part about 5 point harnesses and how there is no give, so I explained the difference between race belts and road belts.  He then comes back and INSISTS this technology is useful in road cars.  I responded with, unless you plan on getting into the car and strapping your head down to the seat this will NEVER happen in a road car.  I wanted to continue with how he probably is confused because he had to wear a helmet on the short bus but I thought better of it for grade purposes.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
Click here to "Like" us on Facebook   Click here for our Youtube Videos
Lifetime Achievement (of hopelessness) Award Winners

RogueLeader's Website

  • From: Iowa
  • Registered: 2010-04-20
  • Posts: 2,660

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

I laughed.. thanks.

Yes.. 6 pt harness... Head on collision... "Hans please."

Everyone has a story about safety equipment, so here's mine.

A local dirt track stock car driver had to use his backup car for a race.  The backup car didn;t have his usual Halo containment seat.  "Just" a Kirkey non-Halo seat.  He was involved in a pretty good accident where he was hit, and then hit the wall in a side-impact.  He of course had a 6-pt harness and regular foam neck brace.  His helmet hit the roll bar on the left and he suffered a cervical spine fracture.  He recovered and is back to racing, but he's told me if he had is normal Halo seat he wouldn't have been injured at all.

My point is, you can never have enough safety equipment, and even when you think it should be fine for just one race it can bite you in the ass.


wanted to continue with how he probably is confused because he had to wear a helmet on the short bus but I thought better of it for grade purposes.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.
  • trekkor
  • trekkor
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Napa, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 2,124

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

We like the DefNder.


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports
  • Marc
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Fort Wayne, IN
  • Registered: 2009-10-06
  • Posts: 1,378

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

trekkor wrote:

We like the DefNder.


KT

yeah, i may have used the wrong title when i made the thread. perhaps something like "why the heck are you guys still running the foam collar" would have been more appropriate.

I'm glad it sparked lots of discussion. until we bought ours, we figured it would be less comfortable and harder to drive with it. we just wanted to dispel that myth in case a few people were on the edge of buying one and needed a bit more of a push.

The less injuries we have in this sport, the cheaper the entry fees can stay.

  • Raydoc
  • Raydoc
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-08-04
  • Posts: 151

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

Physician here...

I use a HANS but will not flame the Defender. Any serious neck protection is better than none. A cervical collar does nothing but keep your neck warm. The only collar than "might" protect you is a rigid "Philadelphia-type" collar that we use to immobilize neck injury patients. You would never wear it if you were not injured. A well-fit Philly collar is uncomfortable.

A HANS (read any real device) with sliding tethers does not impede vision on the track. Any device that works will also form some sort of impediment to emergency egress but if you are hell-bent on getting out you will. IF YOU HAVE PRACTICED. When Jay et al bang on the roof and yell 'get out' it isn't a joke. See if you can get out of your car fully suited up. If your suit has a 12 second rating, you'd better be out in 3-4 seconds.

Cool suit, radios, whatever, be prepared to rip them out with you.

I am more afraid of fire than just about anything else. But I have seen too many brain and spinal injuries to not wear my HANS.

1985 528e Near Orbital Space Monkeys-GONE to orbit
1989 Rustang- "It's not like it's totally undriveable..."
"We came in pieces. We left in more..."
  • DaveG
  • DaveG
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • From: Vermont
  • Registered: 2009-07-15
  • Posts: 220

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

Raydoc wrote:

Any serious neck protection is better than none. A cervical collar does nothing but keep your neck warm.

Amen. It has kind of surprised me that Lemons allows them, because those foam collars offer no protection in an accident.

Any device that works will also form some sort of impediment to emergency egress but if you are hell-bent on getting out you will. IF YOU HAVE PRACTICED.

Amen again.

Our Lemons team uses my Isaac Link (http://www.isaacdirect.com/), which I also use in my own track car. It's a bit of a PITA to put on and off, but once practiced, it becomes almost second nature and can be done in a second. The Link is not as good as a HANS (or the regular Isaac), but the nice thing about it is that everyone on the team can use it because it attaches to the chin strap instead of special helmet mounts. The fact that it costs $199 is a plus too.

The biggest drawback of the Isaac is that it is not SFI certified, and never will be. This is not because it is not effective in a crash (it is, and independent tests have shown so), but because SFI mandates a single point of release, and the Isaac requires you to release a catch on each side of the helmet, plus the harness release. If you are not racing in a series that requires SFI certification, this is not a concern.

I recommend it as a good alternative to foam collars. (And if more people start using them, maybe the tech inspectors will get used to them and stop making funny remarks about mine. smile)

Dave -- member emeritus, Vermont Bert One --
  • From: Jax, FL
  • Registered: 2010-06-19
  • Posts: 33

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

The "other" Issac setup (the shock damper) is a pretty interesting system. Their website only seem to have one (large) somewhat-buried photo of the strap-based Issac Link variant you're describing... here for those who are interested:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Produ … deView.jpg

The Spanish Armada
'51 DeSoto, car #1539: Featuring authentic 16th century engineering
  • DaveG
  • DaveG
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • From: Vermont
  • Registered: 2009-07-15
  • Posts: 220

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

AllYaGottaDoIs wrote:

The "other" Issac setup (the shock damper) is a pretty interesting system. Their website only seem to have one (large) somewhat-buried photo of the strap-based Issac Link variant you're describing... here for those who are interested:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Produ … deView.jpg

Yes, but that picture is of the old Link model that used mounts on the side of the helmet. The new one clips to the chin strap.

Dave -- member emeritus, Vermont Bert One --
  • From: Jax, FL
  • Registered: 2010-06-19
  • Posts: 33

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

Yeah, actually I started out trying to find a picture of the chin strap setup, got sidetracked into reading the shock dampener stuff, and by the time I found the old style strap I had forgotten you said chin strap.

Makes a lot of sense though. Did you find everybody is reasonably comfortable with the same length-adjustments on those straps, or do you just deal with it?

The Spanish Armada
'51 DeSoto, car #1539: Featuring authentic 16th century engineering
  • DaveG
  • DaveG
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • From: Vermont
  • Registered: 2009-07-15
  • Posts: 220

Re: Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?

AllYaGottaDoIs wrote:

Makes a lot of sense though. Did you find everybody is reasonably comfortable with the same length-adjustments on those straps, or do you just deal with it?

We just deal with it. They're adjusted for me, so I hardly notice they're there. At least one of the other drivers was bothered by the chin strap being too tight, but it wasn't bad enough not to use it. And like a lot of things, once you get out on track, you don't even notice stuff like that any more.

Dave -- member emeritus, Vermont Bert One --