Topic: Buying Car From A Team Member?

A group of us are dying to form a team for this year's Buttonwillow event, and one team member has offered to sell his car to the team for $500.  Would this raise any flags in the inspection process?  It's a 2000 Ford Focus sedan with nearly 200k miles on it.  Blue book is surely higher than $500, but he's willing to take an honest $500 for it, with no shenanigans.  It's a real piece of junk with the stereo ripped out and windows that won't roll up, so the entire backseat is rain-soaked.  He says seeing his beloved Focus get beat up at Lemons would be like giving it a viking funeral.

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

You generally don't want to even mention the fact that you may have purchased your car from a team member, even if you did.  Produce a bill of sale, make no mention of who the seller is.  "Some dude on Craigslist sold it to us."

Regardless of the condition of your Focus, I think a 2000 is probably far too new to pass through Lemons judging without a great deal of scrutiny and harassment.  It would have to be completely and unquestionably bone stock and beat up.  Even then, it would get a close look and possibly penalty laps if your documentation isn't up tight.

Remember, if you pay a verifiable $500 for a car that doesn't have anything good on it for you to sell, you have ZERO budget to put into replacing belts and hoses or anything else that doesn't fall into the "safety" category.  And if your buddy who sold it to you just replaced the plug wires and they look new... even though they really were "on the car when you bought it"... I wouldn't want to be you.  I've seen a lot of poor saps go through judging with such stories.  Even if they're true, the judges NEVER believe it.

You'd be better off fixing the windows on the Focus, putting a radio in it, cleaning it up a little and selling it for $1500 on CL.  Then buy something more LeMons-appropriate for $200 and having a little money left over to buy safety equipement.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

I'm glad I asked.  Thanks Loren.

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

Of course, if you're just in it for fun and don't care about winning... bring the Focus, accept penalty laps if offered, and go race!

People often forget that part.  Not every team is "in it to win it".  Your car isn't likely to get claimed, and if you don't drive like dicks, it's not likely to get crushed.  Do penalty laps really matter?

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

Good point.  In general, do teams embrace and obey the $500 limit, or do you see a lot of questionable cars going through?

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

Alan and I are team captains/owners for the Tinyvette car. Alan's name was on the paperwork for the car we bought for $200 but he sold it to me for $50 when we went down to DMV to register it and drive it on the streets. I didn't dare try to list our car's purchase price as $50. Turns out Jay pittied us for driving a 40 y.o. field-find Opel so much that he never really asked, plus the flip-out headlights made for a memorabe presentation of bakshesh.

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

If you really want to run it, run it. Who the hell cares about BS laps? Jay's not going to claim a ruined-ass Focus. He only reluctantly claimed a non-ruined S-class, FFS.

If you want to get by without BS laps, sit on it for a year. A crap-condition mk1 (especially EARLY mk1) Focus is only worth like $600 now anyway.

If you'd like to get it off your hands, I may be persuaded to sell you a radio to make it worth something.

If you want to junk it, does it have the Zetec (DOHC) or the SOHC ("split port") motor? Are the headlights in good shape? Which bodystyle? I have one on the road that needs some parts support that the junkyards have been unable to produce for me.

If you decide to run it (I'd do it), let me know - I have a Focus with the SOHC, and a ZX2 with the DOHC motor, so I may be able to help you sort out some of the stupider things about the car.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

Questionable cars get lots of penalty laps. The Judges know what used cars go for. Like Loren says, if you don't care about winning or finishing close to the front, who cares how many penalty laps you get? But you'll have so much fun that the next time you will care about penalty laps.....

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

I talked to the other guys and I think we might just give it a shot, and take our penalty laps.

EyeMWing - It's not my car, so I'm not sure if it's DOHC or SOHC.  I'll check with the owner.  It's a ZTS Sedan.  The headlights are in good shape.  To raise funds I figured we could sell all of the lights, the airbags, the seats, and the catalytic converter.  Any problems there?

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

The Z in the trim level usually means it has the DOHC engine. You'll have a bit of a harder time with penalty laps with that motor because it is substantially more powerful and is Lemons-proven not to explode readily.


Let me know about those headlights when you get it apart - mine are starting to take on water, and I'm also quite interested in a rear passenger side door lock/latch mechanism (for power locks) if you think you could do without - mine's broken and the door can't be opened from the outside anymore. Obviously you can have the broken one if for some reason you want to keep the door closed on the track.

You might be able to yank the fan speed switch and hock it on a forum like focusfanatics. Those switches go bad a lot, Ford sells them for a billion dollars, and Focuses are annoyingly hard to find in junkyards.

The Mk1s are well known for water ingress through the blower motor intake which is made worse by removal of the plenum cover (which you DO NOT have to remove the windshield wipers to do, contrary to popular belief) - so if you plan on keeping the car outside, cover up that hole ASAP (you'll need to do it for tech anyway)

Manuals, wiring diagrams, whatever, drop me an email and I'll get you a PDF. Be careful with the electronics on this thing - they're STUPIDLY complex and damn near everything important runs through the PCM.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

We don't take kindly to team members selling cars to each other-- you might as well be taking money out of one pocket and putting it into another.  If the car in question is truly horrible and/or awesome, we'd cut you some slack.  Otherwise, expect extra scrutiny.  If you don't have much of a theme and we're in a really bad mood, we might assess BS laps based on the price you paid for the car BEFORE it was hella-butt-terrible. 

That said, if your enjoyment of Lemons is spoiled by a few penalty laps, you're in the wrong race series.

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

Budget?

Buy the car for $500, spend $500 on a theme that makes it top-heavy, aerodynamically challenged, and super slow.

No penalty laps, guaranteed.  The BS judging is there to keep the cheaters out.  If you're there with the right spirit, BS tech is actually kinda fun!

Much <3 to our high court, btw.

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Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

How about buying the car for 800 and selling a bunch of parts out of it. say 450.00.  You'd have 150 for belts, hoses, etc, and I know for a fact that a beat up 2000 focus is worth 800.00.  that's what my daughter got in a trade for her wrinkled one after insurance gave her 3400 for the damage.  Just a sideswipe down the driver's side.  It only had 115k on it.

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Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

craznoe wrote:

Buy the car for $500, spend $500 on a theme that makes it top-heavy, aerodynamically challenged, and super slow.

I can't speak for Jay or Phil, but I like this idea.

I'll be honest-- I think a Focus (even a crappy one) will attract more negative attention from the high court than, say, an Opel GT.  It's pretty new, and from a dynamic standpoint it's a fundamentally solid car.  If you bring it, you'd better go for broke on the theme.  Even then, there's a distinct possibility that you'll get hammered with BS laps.  But again, penalty laps mean that you can't win-- not that you can't have fun.

15 (edited by trekkor 2010-08-31 08:27 AM)

Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

We went through this, too.

I have a '99 Escort ZX2.
Got it for FREE- in all truth- with bill of sale and signed pink slip.
We had no theme beyond Gulf livery on the car.

Jonny just laughed...
( this still haunts me )

We got 10 penalty laps and had the best time ever.
The transmission broke.

We got a residual value and a used transmission off CL and now run penalty free ( we still can't win ).


Run the car, develop your strategy and bring a killer theme.
You'll have a great time.


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
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Re: Buying Car From A Team Member?

http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=1203

This may help...


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports