[ Closed ] GREED IS GOOD? (Page 4 of 4)

I'm planning on running the chump car race at Harris Hill in November.  I'd run a Lemons event instead if there was a close by one in November but alas, there isn't. 

I expect to have a pretty good time racing and wrenching and meeting some interesting people.  Much the same things I get from Lemons. 

I'm glad the corner workers are watching out for us out there, many people of differing skills are on track at one time.  I've had people do some amazingly stupid things right in front of me and been able to avoid contact so far with every one of them.  When this sort of thing happens I do hope the corner workers watch that car a bit more closely. 

I've only been flagged one time that I didn't deserve.  A car spun in front of me and I used the apron to go around.  Saw the flag and assumed it was a 2-off so I came in.  They told me I had contact with the other car.  I didn't, we checked the car and not even a rub spot but I got out and switched anyway, no big deal.

Racing is fun, yes it is competitive and brings out ugly things in some people's character but I am doing this for enjoyment, not a trophy and not to make a living.  If you drive like you need that trophy to feed your family go find another series, you are too serious.

I'm cursed, I'm hooked, while likely not all that good at it, I drive as often as I can on race tracks, with anyone who'll have me. As an event organizer (not this one, sorry) I can tell you that Insurance requirements are similar from one motorsports event to another, and safety is key. The point of this thread appears to be that this could and should be improved for those who invest the time and money.

Only so much room on the track. Limit participation, you bet. Get signed up, get paid, or stay home. Works for every other pay-to-play organization. If I know they are going to take 75, and I'm #76.... well to bad. A mirror of reality? Aw shucks. I'm pissed at..... who?

How would you like your disappointment? Up front, or after you've invested?

If such a change improves the quality of the event for those who do ante up, on time & in full, then is that bad?
Every motorsports event I sign up for has a limit to manage the quality and safety of the event. Been on waiting lists before, and was disappointed. A little exclusivity, is it a bad thing?

Run heats or some bastardized variation thereof? If your gonna put 100+ cars on a 1 mile course, it could recieve some consideration. I agree that would take more thought than I've applied here. But the "24HR" thing is already diced up, and with team driving I don't know track time is the issue - be more like how do you finish the thing?

I do feel that penalizing a driver for stupidity will promote more good will towards the event than screwing the whole team for one person's collapse of sense. But, if they had good sense, would they be participating in this anyway, much less posting in this forum? The jury has left the building on that one.

Both BF's I enjoyed and a number of others I witnessed were directly related to the cyclical traveling parking lot that was CMP last weekend. In general, it left the corner workers in an unenviable position & placed the enforcers of the code as skeptics on steroids!

Not Too Good.

"everybody in here's innocent; didn't you know that?"

With all due respect you brought "the other event" into it in your first post, it is the only reason it has been referenced. 
I have nothing ill to say about Chumpcar other than its not my cup of tea based upon positive reports I have heard.  Nothing negative, but the things that make it a positive for others do not attract me.  That's no fault of Chumpcar, just my personal preference. 
No posts have been randomly deleted.  One personal attack which did not lend to the conversation was deleted and one personal attack was edited from a posting.
This board does not censure people and has always been open for discussion, but it also has been very successful in maintaining a civil atmosphere in which people can openly discuss without resorting to flaming and name calling.  Its one of very few forums on the net that has been able to maintain such an atmosphere and I hope not to loose it.

The rules are consistent, the enforcement is not.  What does that mean?  It means you should play by the rules and thank your lucky stars if enforcement is lax, not assume it will be. 

The point is, the rules are there, unchanged, and I don't see why one should be complaining about them now.  Whether or not I think the rule is fair is a different story.  I certainly see the value for some of the "unavoidable incident" arguments, however the rules are pretty clear so you go into it knowing what to expect.

I have certainly witnessed events where a driver was black flagged for another persons fault.  I was at NL when the crappy flagging was causing drivers to get called in for incidents they weren't even involved in.  Sometimes it gets straightened out, sometimes it doesn't, that's the breaks unfortunately.

I'm sure some folks have some good ideas on how to fix it.  Im sure the insurance adjusters will poke holes in those ideas.  I go through the same thing with BABE.  I constantly give the organizers ways that I think the event could be improved, and they constantly show me why they can't do those things for legal or logistical reasons.  There is just so much more to putting on events like these than you see on the surface so just wishing it was better isnt going to fix it.  Crying that you're gonna take your ball and go play somewhere else isnt constructive.  For good or for bad Jay doesnt frequent these forums (I doubt he'd have time) so while tossing around ideas to flush them out is a great thing they may be falling on deaf ears.  The reasons why some things can't be changed will probably not be explained here.  But Jay is a pretty reasonable guy from my dealings with him (and no we aren't BFFs or anything, I've only met him at a few races and didnt get any slack from him when I did wrong) If he was able to make some of these changes and relax things a bit Im sure he would.  Contrary to some people's belief he doesn't like putting teams on the trailer exactly because a crapstorm like this always comes up when it happens.   But he also doesnt like putting drivers in an ambulance.

If anyone can do it better offer to help, send Jay a personal note and ask what you can do to assist.  Be part of the solution.

no race series is perfect.....Lemons is no different......  and chump isn't perfect either....both are ran the way their owner see's fit (Jay and John)....   

With 197 cars registered for Arse Freeze.....you think Jay WANTS to cut the number down....ya right...nice problem to have with too many paying entrants!!!!  I do think the racetrack might issue a maximum # of cars allowed on track.....and that # Jay has no choice but to live with

In my opinion......I prefer the way Chump handles black flags....its more in the spirit of racing... 

BS inspection at Lemons varies a huge amount too....some teams can get away with anything & others (who are NEVER competitive, but show up at every race) get hammered "since they are due"....umm okay that just doesn't make sense.....speaking in a pure business sense...why would you intentionally hammer a team whose car is guaranteed to break, when they show up at every race....why piss off a loyal customer....

See that is the fundamental flaw of Lemons.....with such large attendance #'s (especially on west coast) Jay & Judges can do ANYTHING to any team....fair or not, since really he doesn't care if team A or F gets pissed and leaves the series....someone else will replace them and their $$$$... 

The favored teams will continue to be favored & everyone else will get hammered....its not gonna change unless attendance changes...

Ran one race at CMP last fall, missed out on Omaha this summer, hitting Autobahn next month.
I can't imagine the monotony of racing a true crap can on an "open" track.  These things are supposed to be pigs run in rush-hour traffic as far as I'm concerned.  Watched some of the Omaha race and wasn't really sad we missed out because of the low car count.  It just didn't feel lemony fresh enough.

On BS laps being 'unfair' at times: Frankly, a handful of BS laps here and there don't make a damned bit of difference to the race results unless you're gunning for overall win. 10, 20, 50 laps really don't mean shit in the grand scheme of things.

Our 10 BS laps at Summit Point would have gained us one position - and that's on a LONG course.
This weekend at CMP we got 0 - but we lost 10 laps every time we refueled. Hell, we lost 5 laps or so to a black flag for the wrong car. And then we lost at least 120 laps to mechanical problems.

Here's a novel idea, if you don't want to get caught cheating, DON'T DO IT. Bring your documentation. Bring a car that isn't a goddamn E30 (or an E36). Some of my teammates have a hilarious tendency to try to talk their way into laps. I don't know if that helps or hurts things, but it's definitely funny.

***Quote***

For good or for bad Jay doesnt frequent these forums (I doubt he'd have time) so while tossing around ideas to flush them out is a great thing they may be falling on deaf ears.

I'm not trying to reach Jay, by greedily packing tracks it's obvious that he could care less. I'm trying to reach all of the potential customers that could waste their money by putting it on a trailer.....

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's not all about greed? Maybe it's about helping others have a blast, and strict rule enforcement helps! You'd rather be denied entry than take your chances on running clean?

Its not my decision to make, but were it, then a statement like this is exactly what would get a thread blackholed.  You have just admitted you are not interested in making things better, you are just interested in trying to attack a man's livelihood based upon your own hurt feelings.  Pretty childish.

If Jay were a greedy money grubber like you say, he'd probably remove things like this that would effect his opportunities to make more money.  The fact that he's allowed it to stay proves he's a rational human being who is interested in open discourse to improve things.  And before you try to twist a quote again, while I abide by my statement above that Jay doesnt frequent the forums, I have no doubt he is aware of this thread by now and would have deleted it he were the evil bastard you claim.

It's obvious you're pretty upset, why not take a break from the forum for awhile and cool off.  If you want to come back later and have a discussion its cool.  If you just want to start trouble and try to subvert Lemons then by all means allow me to show you the door.