Re: Roll cage fron hoop
I figured that the pics from the new cage rules topic would have made my mad crayon skills redundant.
Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Considering none of the cage diagrams in that thread would actually pass as-is....
Maybe I should spend some free time in SolidWorks and make some shiny new ones to share.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
I wouldn't trust one piece of that cage. Rip the whole thing out, and start over.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Yep, fail. I've written to Jay and said as much. the main hoops have to be one piece, the rear stays are in shear. Do over.
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30 2010-08-12 05:12 PM (edited by Junkyard Dog 2010-08-12 05:15 PM)
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
RobL wrote:
Yeah, this isn't going to pass...
Agree, there is much wrong here. The stay goes to a horizontal tube which is not properly mounted to a spreader plate, the rear stays are to go to a spreader plate on the body and not to another horizontal tube. The way the cross tube is mounted is what EG refers to as 'in shear'. The vertical tube has no spreader plate either (not that it would help in this case).
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
The car is going back to the shop for a new cage. Thanks for all the info. Hopefully there will be enough time after everything is fixed for me to finish all the little things and still get an hour or two of sleep before the event starts.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
You might want to show your builder these as an example so there won't be anymore mistakes.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Interesting how the best engineered solutions look the simplest.... relatively few tubes but look at the triangulation...good stuff
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Credit RobL for it, he's the one who did our cage. Top notch work.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Filthy Mechanic wrote:
The car is going back to the shop for a new cage. Thanks for all the info. Hopefully there will be enough time after everything is fixed for me to finish all the little things and still get an hour or two of sleep before the event starts.
Not the same shop right?
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Trevor57 wrote:
Filthy Mechanic wrote:The car is going back to the shop for a new cage. Thanks for all the info. Hopefully there will be enough time after everything is fixed for me to finish all the little things and still get an hour or two of sleep before the event starts.
Not the same shop right?
I'd only go back if he's going to eat the cost to redo it correctly.
37 2010-08-13 04:26 PM (edited by Filthy Mechanic 2010-08-13 04:31 PM)
Re: Roll cage fron hoop
One way or the other, he's eating the cost. That's one thing I'm sure of. His story was "I've done 3 other Lemons cars and they didn't complain". And no, I don't know the name of the shop. 2 of the other guys on the team set this up, I didn't have anything to do with the cage until the car showed up at my place for finishing.
Also thanks to PunisherBass. Those pics will be going with me to the cage shop. Did you front hoop go aft to the main hoop or across the windshield and down to the floor? That's the only thing I can't tell from those pictures.
38 2010-08-13 04:38 PM (edited by PunisherBass 2010-08-13 04:38 PM)
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
They stopped at the top of the A pillar, if you look at the top of the last picture you can make it out. Any red spots you see are where it's been welded up and then painted to prevent rust from forming.
Like I said, RobL is who built our cage and he was also one of the tech inspectors at a recent Lemons race. So you can take his design and what he says to the bank.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
I've taken to only making "Halo" cages anymore.
Basically this:
Simple. Effective. Passes tech.
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40 2010-08-13 09:00 PM (edited by widgetsltd 2010-08-13 09:01 PM)
Re: Roll cage fron hoop
I see that you are running a neon. This is the cage that I installed in my neon: a McKenna bolt-in kit that was (arguably) the best kit available when neons were raced in SCCA Showroom Stock C. I found this one used for a very low price.
I bolted the cage in, then a local cage builder installed the upgrades:
Note that we removed the steel beam inside the dash and used a new cage tube to assume the role of helping to hang the steering column. All tubes are 1.5" x .120" DOM. The cage passed tech easily at Thunderhill this Spring. I realize that the original poster already has a weld-in cage, but this design (whether bolt-in or weld-in) fits and works very well in the neon.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
RobL wrote:
I've taken to only making "Halo" cages anymore.
Me too. After doing conventional bars along the roof and down the A pillar, I got sick of making 3 compound bends to fit tubing tightly to the car. A 2 bend halo, at worst, might require a couple minor bends near the main hoop to meet up with the hoop. After that, the A pillar bars usually require 1 bend.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
TeamDFL wrote:
RobL wrote:I've taken to only making "Halo" cages anymore.
Me too. After doing conventional bars along the roof and down the A pillar, I got sick of making 3 compound bends to fit tubing tightly to the car.
And of course, the day after I post that, I end up making a "front hoop" type of cage.
Will replace picture with actual cage once picture is taken and properly edited...
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We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Per your pics, it looks like you guys have rectified the situation.
That being said, sleeved joints are allowed per the SCCA rules although the information about the joints was ommitted in the most current redo of the cage rules about 2 or 3 years ago. Nothing like eliminating useful information... Cages in Showroom Stock, Touring and Improved Touring get removed and reused all the time as the cage gets the logbook, not the car.
The "sleeved" joints pictured were not done correctly and I'll bet the builder was simply trying to cover his ass saying that they were sleeved. There should have been at least 3 rosette, or plug welds per tube and the sleeve should be around 6"-10" long.
IIRC, per the old SCCA diagrams, the main hoop should NEVER be sleeved above the lowest doorbar. This allowed a cage to be cut out at the pads and then refit to a new chassis.
I do about 10 full length lateral bars for every 1 halo. I just don't like to weld an unbacked support tube at the halo's bend, which is now the thinnest part of the tube.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Izzy's Cages wrote:
sleeved joints are allowed per the SCCA rules
But not Lemons
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
widgetsltd wrote:
I see that you are running a neon. This is the cage that I installed in my neon: a McKenna bolt-in kit that was (arguably) the best kit available when neons
I hope you guys didn't run the race with the above setup. The harness bar is WAY too low for that seat height.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Could be an asinine, uninformed comment - but the tubing in the neon doesn't LOOK like 120 wall tubing. I can't see if this is 1.5 or 1.75, but looks like 1.5 from the photos. There's a visible outside surface finish that 120 dom has (dark and heavy looking) when compared to thinner 060/080 erw tubing (almost looks like conduit).
Have you verified that the tubing thickness is what's required? Drill a small hole through the tube someplace (ie. lower passenger main hoop leg, above the spreader plate) and look in it - you'll know immediately if it's the right thickness.
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
Hoonatic Racing wrote:
Izzy's Cages wrote:sleeved joints are allowed per the SCCA rules
But not Lemons
Agreed... BUT someone up above referenced sleeving in SCCA so I thought I'd clarify 
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Re: Roll cage fron hoop
cmice wrote:
Could be an asinine, uninformed comment - but the tubing in the neon doesn't LOOK like 120 wall tubing. I can't see if this is 1.5 or 1.75, but looks like 1.5 from the photos. There's a visible outside surface finish that 120 dom has (dark and heavy looking) when compared to thinner 060/080 erw tubing (almost looks like conduit).
The original tubing in the red neon is most definitely ERW... can't comment on the wall thickness, but ERW is available up to at least .135 wall as it's used all of the time in NHRA builds (which it's pretty obvious that the builder comes from a straight line background). Looks like 1.75 for the required elements based on the pic of the rear pads. The hoop brace and strut bar look to be 1.75 and the "Support/punch through/fail" bar looks like 1.5"
Scott Rhea