Topic: Radios

What percentage of Lemons cars are equipped with radios (and I don't mean the kind that play music!)?

What type of radios do you use?   CB?   FRS (Family Radio Service)?   Ham?   VHF?   UHF?

Do all your drivers have headsets built into your helmets, or do you have some way of swapping them?   Is there some "standard" type of connectors everyone uses?

Do you use it just from car-to-pit or pit-to-car, or both?

Is it push-to-talk or voice-activated?

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Radios

We have awesome radios - because it matters, and some radio dude thought we were cool and sponsored us.

I'll say this - when they work right - they are sweet, but if you're struggling to communicate with them they are more of a problem than they are worth.

I actually like to be left alone while I'm driving, but we got *good* radios after our first race, and even I think it's a good idea.

Re: Radios

Radios are old school.  We just text.

You are only entitled to the space you occupy.

Re: Radios

I don't mean to be "that guy," but this is a very well-covered topic, so you might want to use the search function and do some more reading up. That said, pithy answers:

1. Somewhere between many and most cars have radios, but not all.
2. Most teams use FRS because those are cheap and readily available. A few teams use CB. Nobody uses shortwave AFAIK. smile
3. Some have helmet kits, some don't. Lots of opinions on this. Some use a speaker mounted in the car.
4. Most comms are two way, but if your driver doesn't have a mic, then you can do the math. If your comms aren't duplex, why not just use a pit board and save the money?
5. PTT. VOX sucks in a high-noise environment like a race car.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

5 (edited by Bender/StickFigureRacing 2010-09-01 08:38 AM)

Re: Radios

CowDriver wrote:

What percentage of Lemons cars are equipped with radios (and I don't mean the kind that play music!)?

What type of radios do you use?   CB?   FRS (Family Radio Service)?   Ham?   VHF?   UHF?

Do all your drivers have headsets built into your helmets, or do you have some way of swapping them?   Is there some "standard" type of connectors everyone uses?

Do you use it just from car-to-pit or pit-to-car, or both?

Is it push-to-talk or voice-activated?

Most good radios are usually Motorola
Most are UHF, multiple channel.
Good communication starts with good headsets. We ran radios without headsets for one race. The engine sounded really good, the driver what?
Standard Headset connectors are either Nascar 1/4 stereo or IMSA connectors.
Communication as Mulry put it should be two way. If you are going to one way it should be Car communication with the pit, signs in the pit. This way the driver can warn the pit crew of issues and flags. the worst thing is to find out from another team that your car has been sitting in the penalty area for the last hour waiting for a driver swap.

With all radios you will want to install an external antenna on the top of the car. Signals that are not strong can drop or get overtaken by other frequencies.

Team: V-Ram/Altamont Team: Knights of the Round Track/Reno/Buttonwillow/Thunderhill Team: Death Mobile/Sears 2010/Thunderhill/ChumpCar  Spokane/ MSR Houston/Buttonwillow/Sears. MRolla Project /Reno
http://stickfigureracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Radios

Bender/StickFigureRacing wrote:

With all radios you will want to install an external antenna on the top of the car.

Or drill a hole in your roof and stick the handheld's antenna out the top of the car.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Radios

The team that runs the Death Cab has a really nice set-up.
Plenty of radio power, so they have no black outs due to track terrain.
Helmet headsets, in car loudspeaker that the video camera picks up.
Push to talk button on the steering wheel.

I want what they have!


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
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8 (edited by doctawife 2010-09-01 02:34 PM)

Re: Radios

If this turns out to be a double post, I'm sorry.  I thought I posted this about 10min ago, but the intarwebs sez I'm wrong.

Links to other threads regarding radios:
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=5550
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=3518
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=1693

We run the motorcycle / motorcycle helmet set up mentioned several times in all three threads.  It works just fine for us.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Radios

Thanks, Mulry, for pointing out the search function.   DUH!   I'm so new that I didn't even see it there.
Also thanks to doctawife for the links.   Now I feel slightly more educated.

I like the idea of a speaker for the video camera to pick up!

It looks like the better systems require an FCC license, but I don't have a problem with that.   The only question is whether they allow it to be used at different tracks, or if the license is restricted to a single location.   Time for more research...

Thanks,
Alan

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Radios

I doubt any teams have an FCC license.

I also doubt the FCC is going to show up.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

11 (edited by Mulry 2010-09-02 06:38 AM)

Re: Radios

AFAIK, the FCC doesn't get involved in license compliance and enforcement issues unless and until there is a complaint from a license holder about somebody stepping on their frequencies. Given the non-commercial use, remote location, and relatively short distance comms that most teams are using at Lemons events, it's quite unlikely that you're going to see an FCC enforcement action. YMMV.

But if you get in trouble, blame Troy.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Radios

For the record, GMRS requires a license as well.  It is something like $80 for 5 years and covers all "household" users.

http://www.ducttapemotorsports.com/
http://www.teamdfl.com
"I can see it now, a pile of nickels and all the glory of being a real race car driver."
Prepping the Red wReck for the 24 Hours of Lemons

13 (edited by doctawife 2010-09-02 08:14 AM)

Re: Radios

Troy wrote:

I doubt any teams have an FCC license.

I also doubt the FCC is going to show up.

+1 million.

Nobody I know has a FCC license anymore.

I used to... when I was a radio DJ.  Same with the Husband.

Have we bothered with our racing radios?  NAH!  Even the radios we used to use when downhill skiing *technically* needed FCC licenses... and we didn't bother then, either.

If Vail doesn't care, Middle-of-Nowhere-TX won't care.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Radios

We had trouble with the Midland GMRS/FRS radios at our last Lemons event.  Even with earbuds, using vox was a disaster, and reception sucked.  We switched to the Midland full-face helmet kit that includes a PTT button.  Mounted the PTT button on the shifter.  Tore apart a handheld midland, hardwired it to a 12v->6v DC/DC adapter attached to car power.  No more batteries.  Zip-tied the shit out of all the wires.

Bought a proper 25watt commercial radio and antenna, then taught it to talk GMRS/FRS frequencies.  Planning on using that from the paddock, with an antenna on top of the trailer.  The car will definitely hear the paddock.  Not sure if the paddock will reliably hear the car.

Thankfully, the Internet has already destroyed my child-like curiosity.

Re: Radios

Spark gap transmitter and Morse code! Any receiver can pick it up!

Re: Radios

Judge Phil wrote:

Spark gap transmitter and Morse code! ALL receivers will pick it up!

Fixed it for you.   :-)

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Radios

Judge Phil wrote:

Spark gap transmitter and Morse code! Any receiver can pick it up!

Shameless bourgeois luxury! Wire up an old headlight as an Aldis lamp.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

18 (edited by Spinnetti 2010-10-18 03:48 PM)

Re: Radios

Been on both sides of this, and frankly, I think radios are not worth the trouble. Its Lemons fer chrissake. Keep your eyes open, and avoid the distraction. People in the pit should be ready and ready for a drivers change. If you run out of fuel, come it. If it breaks, come in. If you get flagged, come in.. Don't need radios for that wink Only time I can see them useful at all is to know when to start on the first lap or to make yourself feel more "Days of thunder".

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

19 (edited by Mulry 2010-10-18 07:58 PM)

Re: Radios

I sympathize, but disagree. This is reasonable if the weather isn't heatstroke-miserable, but you don't want your people in full pit dress unless they need to be in it when it's in the 90's and up in both air temp and humidity. If you want to compete for the overall win in the hot hot hot Texas/Gulf Coast races, you'll need radios. IJS.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Radios

It also depends on the track. At Omaha radios weren't necessary for us. We got a paddock spot right next to the grandstands and we had a big dry erase board with "PIT" written on it.

We are planning on upgrading to CBs.

Re: Radios

We've raced with and without radios and when they work, they are an valuable asset.

As Pat said, we had a driver come in unexpectedly in September at MSR.  He damn near fell out of the car.  The Cool Suit was running but the water wasn't cool enough.

Good communication would have helped the situation.

They are also good to discuss concerns with the car like hey were running at 210.

Okay, keep an eye on it we don't wanna go over 220.

You can't communicate like that through a Pit Board.

Not to mention they do provide some entertainment and venting during long Yellows.

While radios aren't necessary I am glad we have them.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Radios

These are the Midland Radios you want to use.   Also the cheapest place to find them. 

Here are the headsets with PTT to get.   

-Scott

Scott Barton

Re: Radios

Our team has been racing with radios and I could never go back to racing without them. Having HAM radio nerds on the team is a big asset!

We have a couple of the headsets sbarton linked to, so one is in the driver's helmet and the other is in the replacement driver's helmet, which means a driver swap is literally plug and play. PTT is on the e-brake handle so it's easy to feel for. The only thing we don't have (and would really like) is a headset for the spotter, but they're not cheap.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: Radios

LTDScott wrote:

The only thing we don't have (and would really like) is a headset for the spotter, but they're not cheap.

A cheap solution for the spotter might be to combine the "security" headset with over-the-ear noise protection.

ONSET/Tetanus Racing, est. 2008.
Guest drives: NSF, Rocket Surgery, Property Devaluation, Terminally Confused, Team Sputnik, The Syndicate, Pit Crew Revenge, Spank, Hella Shitty, Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse, Nine Finger Drifters, Salty Thunder, Panting Polar Bear, Vistabeam, Hangar 13, and Escape Velocity.
74 races so far.

Re: Radios

There are lots of cheap headsets on eBay.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z