26 Reply by OMGuar (edited by OMGuar 2010-11-12 12:32 PM)

  • OMGuar
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Re: alternative fuels?

mackwagon wrote:
OMGuar wrote:

I can buy junkyard turbo's and intercoolers for $75.00 each.. That's $150.00 and  aftermarket FMU's (used they sell for about $35.00-45, new they are only $85.00)   will allow me to enrich the fueling enough to take advantage of the boost..

hm,   let me work on some simple math here.

Used Jag = $400
2 junk yard turbos and intercooler =$150
Plumbing costs to connect all that together =$100
2 FMUs x 35 = $70
Transmission mods from previous e-mails $50
Cheater suspension mods = $150
Total = $820

Doesn't matter does it if you are right does it?  However,
  Don't know where you figure the suspension mods from,  I'll simply cut the stock springs to lower the car, melt the rubber out of the subframe mounts and reweld them together.  that and weight reduction should make things OK..
  The transmission mod is simply a old ball bearing from a junk transmission and some epoxy.  Maybe a few cents? 
  plumbing?   It will be old junk likely from the car,  don't think it has enough weight to have any scrap value..
And  only one FMU is required.
Now the real question is the value of the car..
I got three of them free from a Junk yard that needed the space for cars that he sells a lot of parts for (BMW's, Volvo's, and Saabs)  He's had them in his place for over a decade with only trivial sales..
However that doesn't matter.  What matters is the asigned value  of a car.   You can get free or near free Mazda MX5's and they are valued at around $500.00    Certain BMW's are valued similarly..  A 34 year old car not known for reliability?  well OK $400 or maybe just $350.00  maybe even $500..
  Doesn't matter does it?
The successfull cars will run about 2 hours betwen gas stops.. (street driven they get between 30-40 MPG) The Jag got 8-11 MPG  so it will need a fuel stop every 40 minutes.. switch to methanol it will need a fuel stop every 15-20 minutes  that's about 100 fuel stops to what?  11-12?  in a 24 hour race? 
In a car not kown for reliability?
If you aren't rolling on the floor blowing snot with tears rushing from your eyes you simply have no sense of humor..  smilesmile

  • From: Houston (Spring) Texas
  • Registered: 2010-02-22
  • Posts: 1,624

Re: alternative fuels?

Mulry wrote:

We may have found a replacement for the Talk to Troy penalty...

I might quit

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Hoonatic Racing's Website

28 Reply by djcommie (edited by djcommie 2010-11-14 10:04 AM)

  • From: Santa Margarita, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-03
  • Posts: 177

Re: alternative fuels?

The highest load on an piston/con-rod is the top of the exhaust stroke, compression load is nothing (like 40%)compared to the tensile load of the piston . Thats why forced induction can get mindbending amounts of power out of the same displacement. You get a small increase in peak pressure with a huge increase in average cylinder pressures, and with the slower burn front due to density and turbulence, you get more torque coming in at a later position of the piston (more leverage). You make the air do the work when the piston is already moving downward!

At least formatting or pararagraphs don't exist in conversation otherwise OMGuar would probably sound like one of those tweaker 16 year old ricer kids  jibbering on at a million miles an hour about turbozzz and how many hookers fit in the trunk of an XJS. tongue

RE: 'ghettocharging', I'd actually calculate fuel flow/CFM/pressure/pressure-rise/octane and what you can get out of an FMU, there's tons of calculations involved and just slamming some arbitrarily larger injector and some fuel with arbitrarily higher octane and claiming it by feel is quite stupid and probably won't work. ECUs once were so simple they could just have piggbacks like an FMU or S-AFCs jammed on but it almost never retarded the ignition timing which is where you derive 'safety' in forced induction, and where the BSFC could be regained somewhat.

There's two reasons why the compression ratio could be so low. Its either low octane fuel it was meant to run on  (best case)  mitigating the need for EGR NOx control due to cool burning temps, because you can then increase the density without much detonation even on pump fuels. The other reason it is low because it could have the combustion chamber design of a ball of crumpled foil and ping like mad with 8:1 CR even on decent fuel. Its your job to find that out. If you are super lucky someone has already done it successfully or provided clues or useful data.

I have a swapped engine from a SUV in my car, and I picked and chose what parts from either the stock 1.3L or truck 1.6L I would use to get the most power. Oddly, applying the same general Daihatsu formula on various Suzuki engines/chassis would get out a 1.6L DOHC Geo Metro with like 130hp.

Team Dai Hard Home Page

1989 Daihatsu Charade

djcommie's Website

  • OMGuar
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Re: alternative fuels?

djcommie wrote:

The highest load on an piston/con-rod is the top of the exhaust stroke, compression load is nothing (like 40%)compared to the tensile load of the piston . Thats why forced induction can get mindbending amounts of power out of the same displacement. You get a small increase in peak pressure with a huge increase in average cylinder pressures, and with the slower burn front due to density and turbulence, you get more torque coming in at a later position of the piston (more leverage). You make the air do the work when the piston is already moving downward!

At least formatting or pararagraphs don't exist in conversation otherwise OMGuar would probably sound like one of those tweaker 16 year old ricer kids  jibbering on at a million miles an hour about turbozzz and how many hookers fit in the trunk of an XJS. tongue

RE: 'ghettocharging', I'd actually calculate fuel flow/CFM/pressure/pressure-rise/octane and what you can get out of an FMU, there's tons of calculations involved and just slamming some arbitrarily larger injector and some fuel with arbitrarily higher octane and claiming it by feel is quite stupid and probably won't work. ECUs once were so simple they could just have piggbacks like an FMU or S-AFCs jammed on but it almost never retarded the ignition timing which is where you derive 'safety' in forced induction, and where the BSFC could be regained somewhat.

There's two reasons why the compression ratio could be so low. Its either low octane fuel it was meant to run on  (best case)  mitigating the need for EGR NOx control due to cool burning temps, because you can then increase the density without much detonation even on pump fuels. The other reason it is low because it could have the combustion chamber design of a ball of crumpled foil and ping like mad with 8:1 CR even on decent fuel. Its your job to find that out. If you are super lucky someone has already done it successfully or provided clues or useful data.

I have a swapped engine from a SUV in my car, and I picked and chose what parts from either the stock 1.3L or truck 1.6L I would use to get the most power. Oddly, applying the same general Daihatsu formula on various Suzuki engines/chassis would get out a 1.6L DOHC Geo Metro with like 130hp.

Thank you for your interest.. too bad you don't know me. If you did you'd know how completely I research stuff before wading in.
Yes I do tend to overly simplify stuff. It's easier that way than boring everyone with exact details..
For example a 34 year old Jaguar's ECU is simpler than simple!!!!!
  (and the reason it was selected)
  It sure isn't a "computer"  there isn't a single chip or even IC in it!  In fact it's more of an electric carburator... It's all RC networks set for timing purposes..   Not a single feedback circuit on it!
In fact it's so basic it's really 4 seperate systems to batch fire 3 cylinders.. One of the reasons I love it is when they went to really high tech digital  systems a couple of decades later they gained only 12 horsepower over the early one.. Luddites of the world unite!
I can sit in the trunk and adjust the fuel mixture with a simple dial the factory installed!
So yes playing with fuel mixtures is really simple..
  And  two,  combustion chamber.None! Flat as a pancake! it does have a  a beautiful Hemisphereical in the piston..  Perfect!
  The reason the compression ratio is so low?  Mostly to meet Calfornia emmisions since that amounts to over 40% of Jaguars market.. (If you want exact details I can bore you with them).. 
  I spent a lot of time doing the required calculations to use a turbo  and one thing always amazed me..  everybody always maximised  everything and then backed of based on assumptions of  limits..   It's like here's the theory but here's reality.  That's extremely reasonable.. especially from a profit position..
  I take a differant approach..
  Engines are cheap!  I've got them stacked like cordwood.. IF I ran out, there are dozens more I could grab.. With that mindset, I also don't worry about maximum power!
  Who cares?  This is race cars worth $500.  power is not a big deal. That V12 will out power every other car.. So what! It's reliability that "wins" 
  This whole thing is like taking a detuned racing engine.. (You should see one once they are apart.. It's beautiful.. Forged Nitrated Crank is standard.. Forged con rods fully machined.. the studs ect.. look like ARP's finest! The block looks as strong as those 6000 horsepower Top fuel blocks except 12 pistons instead of only 8 massively strong! NO wonder people make coffee tables with glass tops  out of them
  The Heads?  great big straight in ports, almost drop a golf ball into each one..   elegant and simple..

  • jw33
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Re: alternative fuels?

I say go for it.

Shake and Bake
America, birthplace of the missionary position. You're welcome...
  • Riktor
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Re: alternative fuels?

jw33 wrote:

I say go for it.

Which part?

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"