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Re: Costs and Recommendation

bottlingguy wrote:

Older (240s, 740s) volvos are a good choice, can be found cheap,easy to work on,  found in most junkyards, lots of turbos out there, shops that make aftermarket racing parts and a large community of volvo fanatics who will help you if you get stuck

Bt after you get through your first race you'll no longer want to compete in a rolling chicane.  tongue

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: Costs and Recommendation

tracks with small turnout are best for beginners. less traffic allows you to concentrate more on driving then on avoiding being hit

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Costs and Recommendation

Hoonatic Racing wrote:

tracks with small turnout are best for beginners. less traffic allows you to concentrate more on driving then on avoiding being hit

True, but there will also be less helpers, tools and spare parts to get your crapheap back on the track after it breaks.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: Costs and Recommendation

Agree with all the advice!

We did our first race in Houston in September, it took us about 2 months to prepare our team of 4 drivers and then 2-3 helpers......we had to buy the car, all the race equipment, a trailer, lots of tools we didn't have, we bought extra rims and tyres etc.....I think we easily spent $5-6000 just getting to the first race....we also hired a trailer and bought some EZ-ups but that wasn't enough in the Texas heat!

As folks have said, you will also spend money on fuel getting there, fuel for the race (can be expensive buying at the track)!  You need to budget for $100 penalty if there is a charity thing going on (maybe $250 if you get a second panalty).

Accommodation over night, spares and then repairs after the event!

Its not a $500 race by any means, but still the best value racing you will find!

Is it because I is an E30 owner???

Re: Costs and Recommendation

From my (our) experience, don't add power.  Our car is slightly detuned (11 lbs boost) and has survived 2 races pretty well.  Many other 2.3 T cars are blowing head gaskets, although I'm not sure what boost levels their cars are running.

The best performance mod you can make is adding lightness.  First, find out what the 2011 rules say before getting out the sawzall, though.  But taking weight out of the car is usually free and it will make the car accel, decel, and handle better.

I've still got at least 100 lbs to go before the next race.

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: Costs and Recommendation

Your first race will set you back at least $4k.  But expect to spend more.  Also, pick the car that will need the least amount of work and that you know the most about.  A car that does not run might need something simple or have a laundry list of problems.  I really like first gen 300zx's as they are cheap and reliable and parts are cheap and readily available.

Want some advice?  Test the car at a track day prior to your first race.  Don't use the first race for testing, cause I have seen too many people trying to get a car to run at their first race.  You might want to get the car running and ready before you even register for your first race.

ZeeGuys 300ZX

Re: Costs and Recommendation

In my limited experience I cannot agree more with firehawk. Testing the car at a track day would have been incredibly beneficial for us. We had the engine running well and the transmission was great but a bunch of little stuff broke during the course of the first day. Engine mount broke, transmission mount busted, broke a few ball joints. None of it took that long to fix, but bringing your car into the pit every 30 minutes is frustrating. If we would have run it for an hour on a real track we would have discovered all of the little problems. By the second day she ran great. Until we threw a ubolt in the drive shaft. That just can't be planned for.

Re: Costs and Recommendation

sergio wrote:

Basically, it's gonna cost more than you planned. But that's only for the first race, then it gets cheaper.......at least that's what I tell myself.

True dat. 
It only gets cheaper if you don't get bit by the bug too bad.  If you're content with the same car over and over, running to a race with your old truck on a Uhaul trailer, it'll get much cheaper.  If you're like most of us, you'll want to buy another car.  Then a bigger garage.  Then your own trailer.  Then marriage counceling.  Then a nicer truck to tow it with.  Then an enclosed trailer to haul the gear and a race car.  Then a third car.  Then pay for the divorce and child support.  Then a schoolbus to convert into an RV.
This doesn't include the continual upgrades/repairs to the car.
I'm currently looking for a trailer...

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Costs and Recommendation

komododave wrote:
sergio wrote:

Basically, it's gonna cost more than you planned. But that's only for the first race, then it gets cheaper.......at least that's what I tell myself.

True dat. 
It only gets cheaper if you don't get bit by the bug too bad.  If you're content with the same car over and over, running to a race with your old truck on a Uhaul trailer, it'll get much cheaper.  If you're like most of us, you'll want to buy another car.  Then a bigger garage.  Then your own trailer.  Then marriage counceling.  Then a nicer truck to tow it with.  Then an enclosed trailer to haul the gear and a race car.  Then a third car.  Then pay for the divorce and child support.  Then a schoolbus to convert into an RV.
This doesn't include the continual upgrades/repairs to the car.
I'm currently looking for a trailer...

Or the other way it doesn't get cheaper - the team moves up from 1 race per year to 3 races per year then 4 races per year then 6 races per year.  Not including the extra arrive and drive for year 2, and the extra three arrive and drives for year 4.

So even if you stick with the same car, the cost can go up.  But then again, so does the fun!

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Costs and Recommendation

Hoonatic Racing wrote:

tracks with small turnout are best for beginners. less traffic allows you to concentrate more on driving then on avoiding being hit

+1
MSR was nerve racking on my first couple laps.  140 cars on 2.4 miles

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Costs and Recommendation

doctawife wrote:
komododave wrote:
sergio wrote:

Basically, it's gonna cost more than you planned. But that's only for the first race, then it gets cheaper.......at least that's what I tell myself.

True dat. 
It only gets cheaper if you don't get bit by the bug too bad.  If you're content with the same car over and over, running to a race with your old truck on a Uhaul trailer, it'll get much cheaper.  If you're like most of us, you'll want to buy another car.  Then a bigger garage.  Then your own trailer.  Then marriage counceling.  Then a nicer truck to tow it with.  Then an enclosed trailer to haul the gear and a race car.  Then a third car.  Then pay for the divorce and child support.  Then a schoolbus to convert into an RV.
This doesn't include the continual upgrades/repairs to the car.
I'm currently looking for a trailer...

Or the other way it doesn't get cheaper - the team moves up from 1 race per year to 3 races per year then 4 races per year then 6 races per year.  Not including the extra arrive and drive for year 2, and the extra three arrive and drives for year 4.

So even if you stick with the same car, the cost can go up.  But then again, so does the fun!

Ha, yeah, also very true.  One race in 2009, 2 in 2010.  We.re going for at least 4 for 2011 since there are six in the area.
You guys did do the "nicer truck to tow with" step, though.

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Costs and Recommendation

komododave wrote:
doctawife wrote:
komododave wrote:

True dat. 
It only gets cheaper if you don't get bit by the bug too bad.  If you're content with the same car over and over, running to a race with your old truck on a Uhaul trailer, it'll get much cheaper.  If you're like most of us, you'll want to buy another car.  Then a bigger garage.  Then your own trailer.  Then marriage counceling.  Then a nicer truck to tow it with.  Then an enclosed trailer to haul the gear and a race car.  Then a third car.  Then pay for the divorce and child support.  Then a schoolbus to convert into an RV.
This doesn't include the continual upgrades/repairs to the car.
I'm currently looking for a trailer...

Or the other way it doesn't get cheaper - the team moves up from 1 race per year to 3 races per year then 4 races per year then 6 races per year.  Not including the extra arrive and drive for year 2, and the extra three arrive and drives for year 4.

So even if you stick with the same car, the cost can go up.  But then again, so does the fun!

Ha, yeah, also very true.  One race in 2009, 2 in 2010.  We.re going for at least 4 for 2011 since there are six in the area.
You guys did do the "nicer truck to tow with" step, though.

[sheepish] Yes, guilty as charged.  We just got a 2000 F250 Diesel for towing.  [/sheepish]

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Costs and Recommendation

firehawk wrote:

Want some advice?  Test the car at a track day prior to your first race.  Don't use the first race for testing, cause I have seen too many people trying to get a car to run at their first race.  You might want to get the car running and ready before you even register for your first race.

Follow Firehawk's advice above.  That initial $3-5K investment will REALLY sting if you spend all that coin just to find out your car doesn't run.  Having a test will reveal hidden flaws that could possibly be an easy fix before race day.

I know each team has their own way (mantra if you will) of approaching Lemons.  Some thrash day and night and seem to always be building/fixing something at the very last minute.  I know that may be the more "lemony" way of doing things, but that method is not for our team.  We spent about 3 months building our car for the first race.  Though none of us are 'real' mechanics, all of us can turn a wrench.  We finished 4 weeks early and had time for a test day before the race.  Luckily we found only one issue during the test, but it sure was nice to just throw the cover on the car afterward and just sit around for three weeks and wait for race day to come.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Costs and Recommendation

VKZ24 wrote:
firehawk wrote:

Want some advice?  Test the car at a track day prior to your first race.  Don't use the first race for testing, cause I have seen too many people trying to get a car to run at their first race.  You might want to get the car running and ready before you even register for your first race.

Follow Firehawk's advice above.  That initial $3-5K investment will REALLY sting if you spend all that coin just to find out your car doesn't run.  Having a test will reveal hidden flaws that could possibly be an easy fix before race day.

I know each team has their own way (mantra if you will) of approaching Lemons.  Some thrash day and night and seem to always be building/fixing something at the very last minute.  I know that may be the more "lemony" way of doing things, but that method is not for our team.  We spent about 3 months building our car for the first race.  Though none of us are 'real' mechanics, all of us can turn a wrench.  We finished 4 weeks early and had time for a test day before the race.  Luckily we found only one issue during the test, but it sure was nice to just throw the cover on the car afterward and just sit around for three weeks and wait for race day to come.

And we're somewhere in the middle.  We make lists, and we generally finish out our build 1-2 weeks before the race.  However, that's generally 1-2 weeks after the last reasonable test and tune.  With the exception of one race (where the list-makers weren't in charge, and things weren't sorted 2 weeks prior to the race) we've generally got some good time in during the race.

So:

If you make a list, check it twice, finish your list and get to a track day - Lemons gold might be possible with any car.  Provided you have time between the track day and Lemons to do anything constructive.
If you make a list, check it twice, finish your list and don't make it to a track day - Lemons gold depends on your car.  If you had a generally solid car to begin with... happiness and Unicorn tears.  If you had a French/Italian/Russian product... maybe not so much.
If you make a list, check it twice and then don't bother actually doing anything until one week before the race... it depends on your resources and skill.  Spank or Speedycop?  Race-worthy car by the green flag.  Doctawife or similar, y'all are screwed.
If you just don't do anything before the week before the race?  You better hope you're on Spank's, Bryan's or Speedycop's team, 'cause otherwise you probably ain't racing.  (Apologies to any other last minute wonders.  I'm short of brainpower today.)

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Costs and Recommendation

doctawife wrote:

[sheepish] Yes, guilty as charged.  We just got a 2000 F250 Diesel for towing.  [/sheepish]

I sooo wish that the way you bracketed you statement actually made the letters out of sheep.

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Costs and Recommendation

Everybody is differant.. I have knowledge and skills with Jagaurs and while it's not likely to be a winner,  I simply cannot see myself in anything else..   If you like or want a particular car that's your answer.. 
MY advice?
Don't make the race cars so much of a race car you can't test it on the street.. avoid the scheme,, complete gutting etc.. painted numbers etc.. untill you can drive the car the race distance without breaking down. 
  Races are won first on reliability and last on speed..

Re: Costs and Recommendation

EriktheAwful wrote:

Having been to two Lemons races, I'd say Mid-America Motorplex in Omaha is excellent for beginners.

+1.  The track is dead flat, and easy to learn quickly.  The paddock sucks for tent camping though.

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: Costs and Recommendation

The paddock sucks for tent camping though.

On the south(?) end of the paddock where the grass has taken back over you can pound a tent stake through pretty easy. Just be sure and bring an air mattress.

Re: Costs and Recommendation

EriktheAwful wrote:

On the south(?) end of the paddock where the grass has taken back over you can pound a tent stake through pretty easy. Just be sure and bring an air mattress.

And that is what we did.  We didn't go quite as far out as you guys, though.  We had a hard time getting the tent stakes in without hitting a chunk of asphalt concealed under the dirt.  I was the only one with an air mattress, so at least I slept well.  Being dead-ass tired helped too...I don't think I've sweat more in any weekend in my life.

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.