Re: 2011 Rules Updates
The only thing about the people's curse that concerns me if people start using the curse to foil those in the top ten rather than people driving like douche nozzles.
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The only thing about the people's curse that concerns me if people start using the curse to foil those in the top ten rather than people driving like douche nozzles.
I suspect that if a non-sporting use of the Curse comes up, Jay will use his powers as benevolent dictator to ignore those votes.
The Curse has been like a pendulum over the years. For awhile, it was too easy to get cursed and some injustice occurred, as exemplified at Ledges. Then it got too hard to get cursed and some who deserved it didn't get cursed. Now the pendulum is swinging back the other way.
I'm of the mind that it is not too hard to get cursed, but rather that the competitors have been voicing their feelings on this particular aspect of the event. No vote = no curse = we don't want the curse.
With the strict enforcement of the 4 strikes and your out standard now in place, having other teams able to black flag me does not sit well. The strict enforcement of the 4 strike rule should be more than enough to eliminate said douche nozzelry.
The only thing about the people's curse that concerns me if people start using the curse to foil those in the top ten rather than people driving like douche nozzles.
I can see this happening as well.
Clarification on the roll cage base plate question.
Quoting Jay directly
"It doesn't have to be all on one plane--in fact, in situations where the location makes sense and shaping the plate better follows the contours of the structure beneath it, we would prefer it not to be on one plane."
Clearer now?
That's what I was suspecting. Good to have offical ruling from the big man in charge.
Thanks!
Ok, I've been pestering Jay for some clarification on modifications to the fuel jugs for ya guys. The response, and I was told to quote him verbatim...
"The next guy who yaps off about his brilliant fueling workaround scheme, no doubt guaranteed to save .3 seconds per stop, will be docked 50 laps. With that in mind, I might suggest it'd be much faster just to bring 5-gallon cans, not dick around with them, and get on with your life, already."
I get the feeling the fueling police penalty will be getting a LOT of air time.
Looking for some clarification on the new rules re. roll cages.
We have an Autopower-built bolt-together cage which was fine in 2009 and 2010. By my interpretation of the 2011 rules, this may no longer pass because the roof bars are held with sleeves - they aren't technically a single continuous piece even if I welded those joints.
Also noticed the section on grandfathered-in / waivers has been struck out. Are we SOL?
Relatedly, does the new rule on crush/crash structures apply to roofs? If I hack mine off and make a convertible, is it still legal? We may want to do this on on our new car to have the required clearances around the driver's head. Besides, who doesn't like convertibles?
As regards the roll cage, I'd suggest you get in touch with John/Evil Genius and take his pulse on that one. I don't think that the intent was to change the rules about roll cage structure substantially, so if it was okay before, it should still be okay.
As regards the crush structure, roof is not included in crush structure. It's just meant to eliminate the cut-down car and the reduction of traditional crush structure (i.e. inside the bumpers).
Just remember if you chop the roof that your drivers will need arm restraints too.
For John (I hope this helps) (let me know if I should delete this if it aint!)
Give him a bit of time - he's getting a zillion emails a day re this sort of thing
On Roll cages:
1 - ask specific questions, like what necoro is asking
2 - take pictures and send them with the questions
3 - provide as much accurate tech info on your cage as you can, like bend radius, tube diameter and tube thickness, what car it's in and such.
- if you have an autopower or such, just saying p/n## for a 19?? is a waste of time. Again, send pictures but DO include the link to what you bought just in case!
4 - Be straight to the point - stories waste his time and don't help the tech question
On pictures:
- Fuzzy out-of focus and dark pics of the deep crevice you tried to weld into are useless
- Pics of the cage like you would take to sell on craigs' are pretty pointless too.
- pics of mount-points that include the spreader plate/box are "the thing" - so are pics of good tube-junctions and welds.
- Door-open and across-the-car scenes help immensely to get an idea of door and shoulder harness bar placement - four points, from car front window, rear window and both sides across car are a great start.
- for Details re questions, take closer shots with adequate light - you can get great close-in shots by using a shop light and don't use a flash, or even use a high-power flashlight - this gives the camera something to focus on and expose properly to.
On other issues:
Read the rules and pretend you are five years old - don't read more into them than is written!
Search the tech forums for Evil Genius or Nick or any other official that might have the answer you are looking for that isn't 100% clear in the rules
Wait patiently and read the forums to see what others are whining about
Ask if your existing "situation" needs repair/redesign, but again - send pics
Ask before you build something really hooptie and be pretty specific
And if the answer is suck-O, Don't whine, just build or rebuild!
I'm not in any rush as it'll probably be a mid- or late- 2011 race before it's back on track, but the CRX has an Autopower cage with an added door bar that passed tech okay in 2009. So Necoro, if you get an answer to your question, I would love to see it posted here. Thanks.
I've got a modified Autopower in my MR2. I'm going to ask Jay to look it over in Miami and give me a ruling. If we don't get anything before then, I'll let you know how it pans out.
The rules regarding the cage being constructed of single continuous tubes have not changed according to the strikethrough version of the 2011 rules. That means what was accepted in 2010 should be accepted in 2011.
While I won't specifically answer the question, I sent Nick a different question about our Autopower bolt in cage and he said that they are doing their best to keep Autopower, Kirk, etc. bolt in cages legal.
Ask Nick or John to be sure.
The only thing about the people's curse that concerns me if people start using the curse to foil those in the top ten rather than people driving like douche nozzles.
quoted for using the phrase "douche nozzles."
I'm going to try to take some photos tomorrow or Sunday and send them in for the official word, and I'll reply back here.
Chances are we'll end up with a different car, but at the same time the cage should fit the new car without much modification, and it's not tipping a weight limit where the tubing size is substandard. And of course we'd rather preserve that "investment" if we can.
If not, well, like the man said, them's the breaks. Just need to know so we can get this heap ready for the NH race!
So I just went to a local race supply shop and bought a pair of Alpinestar socks. On the shop's price sticker it says "Nomex," the label on the socks it says "100% Aramid fiber." They are FIA8856-2000 rated. Will these work?
-Matt
Nomex is a trademarked name for a certain class of aramid. I would think you'd be fine, but email Nick to get a definite yea/nay.
+1, it is just like calling all tissues "Kleenex". It is a branding/actual product identity issue.
Before I go and email Jay on this one, I thought I would see if anyone else has already gotten an answer from Jay.
After the Dallas Race, we decided it best to put Pepe on a diet and lighten him up a little (like its really going to help us or something)....we threw away (yup...... in the dumpster.....DOH!!) the rear hatch, both rear doors and the passenger door with the intent of replacing them with sheet aluminum that we had laying around. Now with the rule change, we are wondering if we should have kept the doors. Are replacement panels securely fastened to the body OK for the doors? The rules only state an OE hood and not OE doors. I am assuming as long as there is something there we are good. I just don't want to assume and get nailed at tech.
Has anyone heard a final consensus on this issue?
+1, it is just like calling all tissues "Kleenex". It is a branding/actual product identity issue.
That's what I suspected, but thanks for clarification guys.
-Matt
+1, it is just like calling all tissues "Kleenex". It is a branding/actual product identity issue.
Also as an FYI, nomex and kevlar are reaaaaly close to each other chemically. Just rearrange the carbon molecules, and you don't have fire retardant, you have bullet resistance/cut resistance.... They are both aramids.
Dang, guess something did sink in from that chemistry degree!!!
Regarding rule 3.28 "...all doors in place..."
How much of a door do we need to be considered a door in place? i assume doors do not need to actually open (except for the driver's door)?
In other words, if we plasma out the entire inner structure, leaving not much more than a skin, and weld it to the chassis, does that count as "all doors in place"
Skinned and welded shut doors are pretty common in Lemons. Don't think that will be a problem.
Before I go and email Jay on this one, I thought I would see if anyone else has already gotten an answer from Jay.
After the Dallas Race, we decided it best to put Pepe on a diet and lighten him up a little (like its really going to help us or something)....we threw away (yup...... in the dumpster.....DOH!!) the rear hatch, both rear doors and the passenger door with the intent of replacing them with sheet aluminum that we had laying around. Now with the rule change, we are wondering if we should have kept the doors. Are replacement panels securely fastened to the body OK for the doors? The rules only state an OE hood and not OE doors. I am assuming as long as there is something there we are good. I just don't want to assume and get nailed at tech.
Has anyone heard a final consensus on this issue?
We'd prefer the original doors, but, if you do a good job of covering up the holes where they used to be you could pass tech... Notice the 'could' in that sentence, whereas oe doors 'would' pass tech
-John
A question about kill switches...
Will using a remote cable or similar system be allowed to switch the car off. I can't reach the kill switch when belted in, but if I add a short extension and pull handle, I can easily trigger the switch.
Relocating the kill switch would be a pain in my car.
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