Topic: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

We are looking to add a bit of extra motivation for our team for our future entry at a CMP event by getting several people to sponsor our team for charity, and for each lap completed they will contribute $X.XX to the charity we are racing for.

But, we have no idea how many laps to expect to complete, so, assuming all things go right, car doesn't break down, we don't have any black flags, and we cross the line at the end, what is an approximate number of laps we should expect to have completed?

Thanks!

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

Here are the number of laps completed by the winner-on-laps for the last 6 Lemons races run at CMP:

Fall South 10: 684
Spring South 10: 728
Southern Discomfort 10: 670
Fall South 09: 587
Spring South 09: 595
South 08: 512

Now, how many laps should you expect to complete in your maiden voyage? First off, you are assuming in the wrong direction. To be accurate, you should assume that all things will not go right, that the car will break down (how often and with what severity is up to you), that you will have black flags, and it's no better than 50-50 that you'll see the checkered flag from inside your car.

I'd say 300, but that's just a wild-assed guess. Good luck.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

Mulry wrote:

Here are the number of laps completed by the winner-on-laps for the last 6 Lemons races run at CMP:

Fall South 10: 684
Spring South 10: 728
Southern Discomfort 10: 670
Fall South 09: 587
Spring South 09: 595
South 08: 512

Now, how many laps should you expect to complete in your maiden voyage? First off, you are assuming in the wrong direction. To be accurate, you should assume that all things will not go right, that the car will break down (how often and with what severity is up to you), that you will have black flags, and it's no better than 50-50 that you'll see the checkered flag from inside your car.

I'd say 300, but that's just a wild-assed guess. Good luck.

We do not expect to complete that high of a number of laps, but when we are looking for potential charity sponsors, it'd be nice to say "It can be as many as XXX laps, but could very well be as few as XXX laps".

And the team has a few veterans to Lemons, and the car will have plenty of testing, including a track day full of Nissan GTR's, Porsche GT3's and the like, it should be amusing! That still doesn't remove the equation of the person behind the wheel, so I expect it to see some pit time!

Thanks for the info!

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

IF you assume things will go right, well, you know the rest.... 

Unless you are VERY lucky or skilled at setting up a craptacular car to perform a near-impossible feat and stay on the track all weekend, expect 200-400 laps. 

CMP eats brakes like you would not believe.  Upgrade, or enjoy the savory aroma of fire extinguisher dust mixed in with burning brake fluid.

#508 Team SOB
FINALLY!!!!!!!!!

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

Mick25 wrote:

Upgrade, or enjoy the savory aroma of fire extinguisher dust mixed in with burning brake fluid.

Or, you know, both...

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

6 (edited by EyeMWing 2010-12-21 06:10 PM)

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

We had 402 scored laps including 1 major (About 2 hours) and several minor mechanical stops. That was middle of the pack.

200-450 is a good range to expect. Full standings for the event are here:
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1706276
Unfortunately MyLaps doesn't give you some necessary info like veterancy levels, and the car being run - but it's a starting point.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

A lot depends on the type of car. If it's a Starion, figure something in the 1-to-15-lap range.

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

I posted the stats for a race a while back, showing the distribution of laps completed and also lap times.

For laps completed, at Thunderhill, a fairly high proportion of cars completed 0 laps, but if you somehow managed to do better than that you still had a fair chance of dropping out after less than 25 laps, and this trend continued but diminished until about 75 laps. If you made it this far then your chances of not completing 25 more more laps was about the same as everyone else. We'll statistically speaking, the same, but that doesn't mean your chances were as good as Eyesore's or Death Cab's. Basically, 6-8 cars would drop out after every additional 25 laps.

For a rough estimate, I'd just go with a 7% dropout rate per 25 laps.

Here's the original post, with real charts and everything: http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=5928

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

Also, CMP is a real car-killer, especially in the summertime. Lots of brake fires and blown head gaskets.

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

Judge Phil wrote:

Also, CMP is a real car-killer, especially in the summertime. Lots of brake fires and blown head gaskets.

So what you are saying is ditch the E30's ETA and swap to something that fell over 30 degrees.. big_smile

And I suspect we'll have a handle on the brakes, we've set up nearly 4,000 pound cars for enduro racing..

Since brakes are safety, is there such thing as too nice?

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

You can spend all you want on brakes.

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

Judge Phil wrote:

You can spend all you want on brakes.

and you need to.

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

I think the mathmatical equation is something like $(>IOE-x-hrs, vrs POS-year+cheatonium=laps available) of course if its a french car you can throw all that out the window.

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

JaredP wrote:

So what you are saying is ditch the E30's ETA and swap to something that fell over 30 degrees.. big_smile

And I suspect we'll have a handle on the brakes, we've set up nearly 4,000 pound cars for enduro racing..

Since brakes are safety, is there such thing as too nice?

Yes, ditch the E30. I love me some Bimmers, just not in Lemons. They're too common and too easy. I'm not saying you have to go the Wartburg/Dauphine incredi-swap route, and especially not for your first Lemons effort. But bringing an e30 to a Lemons race is just not bringing a party. And that's what makes Lemons really fun and different from everything else out there. IMHO. Not everyone agrees on this point.

While brakes/wheels are "free" from a budgetary standpoint, I've always thought that a team that shows up with really expensive & light wheels and a multi-thousand dollar Brembo or Willwood-type non-factory setup on their brakes is more likely to get sweated hard in judging. Not that those parts aren't swapped illegally, but if I were a judge and saw that setup, my suspicion would be that the team is very concerned about going fast and winning the race, and teams that are primarily concerned with winning the race tend to have a hard time not putting cheaty parts on other non-free parts of the car or having expensive work done on other non-free parts of the car.  But that's just my speculation, that's never been confirmed (nor denied) by a member of the Lemons Supreme Court. YMMV. Good luck.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

15

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

Bring lots of brake pads.  We bought every pad and wheel bearing (brakes killed them too)within an hour of CMP for the Craptation last May and STILL finished with no pads for the last hour.   It didn't seem to matter which kind of pad we used, they all went up in smoke and fire.  Oh yeah, we need a new extinguisher now.  crap, I forgot.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

JaredP wrote:

We do not expect to complete that high of a number of laps, but when we are looking for potential charity sponsors, it'd be nice to say "It can be as many as XXX laps, but could very well be as few as XXX laps".

But to answer your direct questions, I would say, "It could be as many as 900 laps (1-minute lap x 15 hours), but could very well be as few as 0 laps."

Dave Heinig - Schumacher Taxi Service
coROLLa - 2 time loser, RWB MR2 - 5 time loser
The Craptation - IOE WINNER! Lemons South Spring 2010
Crown Vic - Please God Don't Ever Make Me Go Through That Again

Re: Average number of laps completed for a team during a Lemons race CMP

JaredP wrote:
Judge Phil wrote:

Also, CMP is a real car-killer, especially in the summertime. Lots of brake fires and blown head gaskets.

So what you are saying is ditch the E30's ETA and swap to something that fell over 30 degrees.. big_smile

And I suspect we'll have a handle on the brakes, we've set up nearly 4,000 pound cars for enduro racing..

Since brakes are safety, is there such thing as too nice?

well....................... that 595 was logged by a '87 eta, stock calipers with HT-10s.

but i think you can see that CMP is definitely getting faster as time goes by.

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36