Topic: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

I pride myself on redneck engineering, but I have no welding skills whatsoever.  Never touched a welder of any kind.  Undoubtedly, I'll encounter a situation in Lemons where welding skills will be a plus.  My friends with welding skills are proving to be un-dependable, so I've decided to take it upon myself to learn how to weld.  Of course, I'll probably leave roll cage construction to the pros at first for obvious reasons.

Just looking for advice as to what sort of rig to stay away from, or recommendations for a "cheap" rig that would be decent to learn with.

Any tips or advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric

I am mentally divergent in that I am escaping certain unnamed realities that plague my life there. When I stop coming here, I will be well...

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

IMO, "learning to weld" shouldn't be done on a roll cage!  Welding tubing is a different challenge than flat stock.  Also welding thick plate to thin sheet metal is yet another challenge.

As far a rig, buy one made by either Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart...nothing else.  Flux-core is cheaper, but not easier.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

Rig - If you are willing to buy another machine once you learn...  Get a 110v Miller or Lincoln MiG set-up.  Get one that can do both gasless and gas welding.  HOWEVER - You are going to want to use gas from the start (you want the option of 110v and gasless wire at the track).  If you can afford it, buy new.  Welders are typically rugged, but nothing is more frustrating than trying to track down a problem inside the box. 

Once you get decent at sticking some steel together...  Then get a 220v machine for the garage and have the 110v one for travel. 

I can not stress this enough - get a good autodarkening helmet.  You must be able to see what you are welding in order to weld it.  Change out the replaceable visor lens often.  Get good gloves and throw them out when they get holes or burnt. 

Then finally, take a class.  You can not learn how to make a good weld without feedback from someone who knows. 

--Rob

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

RobL wrote:

Rig - If you are willing to buy another machine once you learn...  Get a 110v Miller or Lincoln MiG set-up.  Get one that can do both gasless and gas welding.  HOWEVER - You are going to want to use gas from the start (you want the option of 110v and gasless wire at the track).  If you can afford it, buy new.  Welders are typically rugged, but nothing is more frustrating than trying to track down a problem inside the box. 

Once you get decent at sticking some steel together...  Then get a 220v machine for the garage and have the 110v one for travel. 

I can not stress this enough - get a good autodarkening helmet.  You must be able to see what you are welding in order to weld it.  Change out the replaceable visor lens often.  Get good gloves and throw them out when they get holes or burnt. 

Then finally, take a class.  You can not learn how to make a good weld without feedback from someone who knows. 

--Rob

I agree with what most of Rob says, but my 110V Lincoln does everything I need it to do.  I learned on a 220V Miller, but I can weld just as good with my 110V Lincoln for the thicknesses I need it for.

I used to swap out the wire for flux-core when I took mine to the track but that got to be a pain and besides using the gas is so much easier.  Therefore I bought a small 20lb tank for travel and life is good.  Flux-core still has it's use though because it you are outside and it's windy you gotta have it.

As for the class, Rob is spot on.  There is no substitute for learning from someone who can teach you how to 'do it right'.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

VKZ24 wrote:

I agree with what most of Rob says, but my 110V Lincoln does everything I need it to do.  I learned on a 220V Miller, but I can weld just as good with my 110V Lincoln for the thicknesses I need it for.

Once he learns how to weld, can do it well, and know the thicknesses he will routinely be dealing with -  he will know if he needs a 220v welder.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

I bought a Lincoln welder, basically the biggest 110V model they make, when I was 19 years old.  I'm 33 now, and still using it.  It was originally the flux core, and I used that for many years, finally about 6 or 7 years ago I spent the $100 for the gas conversion.  Wow.  What a difference.  Classic case of kicking myself for not doing it sooner. 

I learned to weld in a 1 semester class at college (probably the best class I took at my 4 years of undergraduate mechaincal engineering, also learned to use shop tools) on a 220V miller and honestly, I like the 110V Lincoln better.  I get the feeling that Welders are like cars- once you find one you like the feel of, stick with it.

Other than a ground clamp that's about to fall off and a wire feed cable that I had to replace because I took the welder out to the desert for Burning Man and the sand/ salt got in it, its been a great unit.  On;y problem is, they're about double now what I paid for mine.  But you can find deals.  A friend of mine bought one of the newer equivalents at a garage sale, the dern thing looks brand new, and paid $75 for it.  I offered him double that, in cash, on the spot, and he wouldn't take it. 

I've welded up to about 1/4" material with it, and it works pretty well.  The flux core is supposed to be better for thick stuff, the gas is a must if you're doing body work or thin plate.  Flux is portable, gas works better.  Same with 110V vs 220.  A buddy of mine has the same unit as mine and bought the aluminum conversion kit, and claims it works great.  For me, if its steel, I weld it, if its anything else, I just braze.

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Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

RobL wrote:

I can not stress this enough - get a good autodarkening helmet.  You must be able to see what you are welding in order to weld it.  Change out the replaceable visor lens often.  Get good gloves and throw them out when they get holes or burnt. 

Then finally, take a class.  You can not learn how to make a good weld without feedback from someone who knows.

Excellent advice!   An autodarkening helmet is essential for a beginner.   It will remove many of the frustrations that bother a new welder, right at the time when you are trying to deal with lots of new stuff.   Buy it at a welding supply store, not at Harbor Freight, to ensure you get a top performer.   Some places will even let you try it out.

Gloves are going to be a very personal choice.   You have to strike a balance between shielding your hands from being cooked, and being able to manipulate the torch.   You may wind up with multiple pairs for different jobs.   Also, there is nothing wrong with using one thick one and one thin one if it suits your needs.

A class is another essential step.   A good instructor can look at what you are doing and give you instant feedback.   I took my classes (note, plural) at a local community college, but ask at your welding supply store if they know of other classes -- they might even offer them.

Finally, practice, practice, practice.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

What is all this MIG talk? TIG FTW!

I started (self-taught) gas brazing copper to do A/C repairs. When I Was good at that, I tried to gas exhaust with a coathanger (ugliest welds ever). A pro TIG weldor lived next door, and he insisted on teaching me the right way to do it and with a TIG.

If you can learn to gas weld (not braze, but weld) all other methods will come naturally. I suggest learning MIG last since it is the easiest to get wrong but still look right.

My first machine was a Hobart AC/DC stick welder. I added a TIG attachment.

When shopping, look at duty cycles. Mine is 100% duty at 75 amps.
If it says 80% duty cycle, that means after 8 minutes of welding you need to stop for 2 minutes and chug your beer.

When you find a heat/speed setting that is butter for that given metal and thickness, write it down for fast reference. I sharpie it on the machine, but you can use a notepad.

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Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

CowDriver wrote:

A class is another essential step.   A good instructor can look at what you are doing and give you instant feedback.   I took my classes (note, plural) at a local community college, but ask at your welding supply store if they know of other classes -- they might even offer them.

I took a welding class last Fall semester at one of our fine taxpayer-funded local community colleges. My classes were for 3 hours on Sunday afternoon, and it destroyed my NFL season. So as a huge pro football fan, I can say this: my welding class was hands-down the most fun 3 hours of my week, every week of the semester. I would give up the NFL season every fall for the rest of my life if I could have that kind of fun every week with a welder and some steel. You may think that you can figure out Mig welding ("it's just like using a hot glue gun!" is my favorite misperception) on your own, but you will mostly make cold joints that you think are good enough. Take a class and you learn what a weld is really supposed to look like, and then you learn what it's supposed to sound like (!), and then it all lines up. Plus there's something elementally powerful about the feeling that you have conquered the melting and melding of steel, as if you were Vulcan himself.

And then you will find yourself endlessly trolling CL for the proper welder to add to your collection...

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

I have a shiny new HH140 MIG and a full bottle of gas, but my local community college only offers the MIG classes in fall and winter semesters, so I have to wait until September to start.  I'll try not to pick up a bunch of bad habits over the summer. 

The classes are a few nights per week, so at least I won't miss the NFL season.  tongue

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Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

Some info here http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=6402
I wrote a newbie / help bit halfway down the 2nd page.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

Jeff G 78 wrote:

I have a shiny new HH140 MIG and a full bottle of gas, but my local community college only offers the MIG classes in fall and winter semesters, so I have to wait until September to start.  I'll try not to pick up a bunch of bad habits over the summer. 

The classes are a few nights per week, so at least I won't miss the NFL season.  tongue

Heck, there may not be a NFL season this season. Guess I might have to watch the "Chase for the Cup," whatever that is.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

Thanks for all the reply's.  Gettin kinda excited about it now.  Time to look for a community college with welding class, and scour craigs list for a rig.

Mulry, what college did you take your class at?  I'm newly located in Lewisville, so Brookhaven may be the closest place.  Haven't checked if they offer classes or not, yet.

I am mentally divergent in that I am escaping certain unnamed realities that plague my life there. When I stop coming here, I will be well...

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

EricTheBrown wrote:

Time to look for a community college with welding class, and scour craigs list for a rig..

When you register for the class at the college, don't tell them that you are building a race car.   Tell them that you got laid off and are retraining for a new job.   That helps them justify keeping the shop classes.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

EricTheBrown wrote:

Thanks for all the reply's.  Gettin kinda excited about it now.  Time to look for a community college with welding class, and scour craigs list for a rig.

Mulry, what college did you take your class at?  I'm newly located in Lewisville, so Brookhaven may be the closest place.  Haven't checked if they offer classes or not, yet.

I took my class at Brookhaven. I think that Lewisville is in Denton County though, and Brookhaven is a Dallas County community college, so I don't know if your tuition would be higher because you would be out-of-county or not. It couldn't be too expensive even if that were the case; I think my tuition for the class was like $195 for the semester, which worked out to something like $5/hour for actual in-class time. That includes all your consumables too. And if you go to class enough and don't make like a total asshat, you even get a certificate suitable for framing smile

It looks like the summer session doesn't have the normal oxy-flue welding class that I took -- they are offering a blacksmithing class this summer, which sounds interesting other than the horrible likelihood of heatstroke working at a forge outdoors in the middle of a Texas summer -- but you might give them a call anyway. The welding classes tend to fill up quickly as they have a very limited number of spots per class (like 6?) since it's essentially a lab class and there's only one instructor to oversee everyone and make sure nobody is doing anything too dangerous.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Newbee to welding - advice appreciated

... my two cents...


Don't use brake parts cleaner to clean material before welding!

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

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