Topic: please tell me about lights?

We are really considering going to the real 24 hours race. The only headlight we have is quite irrelevant to night driving.

I would appreciate hints & tricks regarding a proper setup.
Do I need six round e30 headlamps from a junkyard?
What about masking tape - is it going to melt?
What about wiring - do I need to make it from scratch? alternator?
How many headlights would be too much?
How do I make sure they point where they should point?
Where do they need to point?

Re: please tell me about lights?

Good discussion about lights came up for last year's ECR 24 and the previous year's overnight events in Louisiana and the West region. Here's your reading list to start off discussion, then we'll move on to specifics...
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=9969
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewt … p?id=14592
and a third thread http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=9274

Initial thoughts on your questions:
e30 lamps -- maybe
masking tape -- do you mean the clear tape over lenses? No, it doesn't melt.
wiring - run new lines w/relays; your alternator will probably be OK if your car originally had A/C
quantity - we fit 6 driving lights & 2 fogs onto a Neon. 4 driving lights & 2 fogs onto a 944.
aiming - read those threads for confusion quantities of aiming advice. I do initial aiming with a folding table set on its side in front of the car, then refine aiming at the track with an empty spot of paddock.

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Re: please tell me about lights?

What I've found is that you very much get what you paid for when it comes to lighting.  While many have put HID bulbs into halogen type reflectors, all you'll do is piss off everyone else.  I would say Hella 500's are the best bang for the buck in halogen type lights.  If you can get OEM HID bulbs and housing units from something, you'll be happier with those than halogens.  Don't forget to tint your rearview mirrors.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
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Re: please tell me about lights?

http://www.murileemartin.com/Crap/HighBeam-Both.jpg

I have the high-beam headlight assemblies from my parting-out-a-Lexus-on-eBay project (they didn't sell on eBay after several attempts) and I'll bring them to Summit Point if anybody wants them. They're just regular halogen lights, but fairly compact for the amount of light they produce.
http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/lexus/sc-400/1993/oem/1993_lexus_sc-400_coupe_base_fq_oem_1_500.jpg
They're the little lights inside the main headlights. They could be ziptied into the grille of a hooptie Lemons car.

Re: please tell me about lights?

another option you could do is the newer LED light bars that are big right now in the 4wheel community. they're pricey, but 2 12" bars mounted on an angle coupled with oem headlights will throw the same light 6 hella 500s will, with less heat, less power draw, etc.  there is a reason they're using them on the pro race cars now, albiet those are 24" monster bars

but they are on the pricey side, but with them being the new tech for offriading you can always sell em after.

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Re: please tell me about lights?

rabblerouser wrote:

another option you could do is the newer LED light bars that are big right now in the 4wheel community. they're pricey, but 2 12" bars mounted on an angle coupled with oem headlights will throw the same light 6 hella 500s will, with less heat, less power draw, etc.  there is a reason they're using them on the pro race cars now, albiet those are 24" monster bars

but they are on the pricey side, but with them being the new tech for offriading you can always sell em after.

The price on LED bars is plummeting because of the Chinese knock-offs, which appear to be nearly as good as name brand stuff. That being said, I'm not a fan of the color and light output of the LEDs in road racing. Black pavement seems to absorb the light. Our 4 100 watt IPF Halogens are far more effective than the 10" LED bar we also have, contrary to what the Lumen rating would have us believe. The LEDs also produce incredible glare:

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Re: please tell me about lights?

lots of good stuff here, http://www.rallylights.com/Hella_90mm_H … dules.aspx and other decent options on the rest of their site if you dont mind spending $ for good lights.  I have the 90mm projectors in one of my cars, ellipsoid low beams are good but very sharp cutoff. Highs are pretty impressive.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: please tell me about lights?

http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LCGB11/LCGB11-UG-035.jpg

Hong Norrth showed up to the 2011 Cain't Git Bayou with these junkyard HID lights (I think they're from an early-2000s Chevy truck) mounted on the hood. It was a cheap and effective setup. They won the race, so the lights must have been good enough.

Re: please tell me about lights?

$60 for one hella light? And I need six of them? I am totally leaning towards some junk yard parts... Somehow this crap just makes more sense for my crap can. I guess I should figure which parts I need to source from which vehicle. Something about ignition right?

I've seen a  SC400 in a yard recently, did they all come with HID? While I am in the yard, which car has a simplest-to-pocket relay which would work in the switch circuit? Any recommended fuse boxes which would be easy to mount?

Re: please tell me about lights?

Hella 500s are less than $70 a pair on Amazon. I'll reiterate the price to usefulness ratio on these, I've used them as supplemental high-beams a lot on street cars (although I have Cibie Oscar+ lights for my DD now). Four of those and some sort of low/cornering beams ought not to suck too bad for Lemons duty.

Haven't done a night race, but have done late night TSD rallies and such. Anything non-OEM that's cheaper than the Hellas tend to only produce glare.

11 (edited by psychoboy 2013-06-10 07:47 AM)

Re: please tell me about lights?

any standard 5 pin bosch relay will stand up to Lemons duty. use one relay per light if you don't want to worry about them, they are cheap and easy to find.

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/benimur/2012-06-11_092840_bosch_relay_2.jpg


as for wiring them up, they take standard female spade connectors, and couldn't be simpler to understand (tho i usually use 30 for the voltage, and 87 and 87a for the load)

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/benimur/2012-06-11_092509_bosch_relay_multi-switch.jpg

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Re: please tell me about lights?

fiasco wrote:

Hella 500s are less than $70 a pair on Amazon. Anything non-OEM that's cheaper than the Hellas tend to only produce glare.

This.  If you search hard enough on local craigslist and eBay, you can find the 500's cheaper.  The problem with Craiglist searches for "hella" or "cibie" or <insert name brand lighting here> is that when you go look at the things, it turns out to be some Chinese made 5w backup light.  Night racing is hard enough but when you can't see, it's just plain miserable.  Our first time with cheap lighting, I clock watched a ton just waiting for stints to end.  I drove off course at full throttle a couple times without any clue that I was headed off into Robin Hood's merry forest.  You will regret it if you don't go name brand or OEM.

If you pull a relay and it has terminals marked "30", "85", "86" & "87", it's a pocket relay. (if it also has an 87a, that's ok).

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: please tell me about lights?

We used a set of KC Highliters on our car and they MUST have been good because everyone gave us the finger!

Come to think of it, we also got the finger a lot when the lights were off - errrr nevermind.  hmm

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Re: please tell me about lights?

The relays that Toyota put in LS400s and SC400s are of very high quality. They don't have the standard Bosch terminal numbers, but they do have handy diagrams molded into the casings. If you prefer the Bosch relays and you're junkyard shopping, 80s BMWs always have a bunch.

15 (edited by rodknox2 2013-06-10 02:22 PM)

Re: please tell me about lights?

We've done 2 24 hour races.  The first one at Fernley we just couldn't tell where the car was on track.  Which left us in the literally dark...So for the second race at Buttonwillow we added a lighted whip.  It only took a mere glance at the track to see the whip. It made us feel better knowing where our heap was on track.  As far as lighting...we made a light bar by mounting 4 KC Daylighters on a piece of aluminum angle that we bolted to the bumper supports.  We grounded each light to the aluminum and ganged the 12v of 2 lights together which in turn went to one of two relays.  We had left the light stalk on the steering column.  So we used the high beam position to energize the relays.  Two lights pointed straight down track and two were wall eyed for the apexes.  Now to reinstall the lights, all we have to do is bolt up the light bar and plug in the two wires to the relays.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7294/9008573159_00018f6c54.jpg
P5100061

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3696/9010811292_50d650e8fd.jpg
P6090301

Re: please tell me about lights?

By the way, what color should we paint the car to be most visible in the dark?

We still run the weather-stained stock red and I am looking for a reason to make the car acid-green or something.

Re: please tell me about lights?

http://www.amazon.com/pcs-White-Reflect … B006T3KZFW

18 (edited by Team Sensory Assault 2013-06-10 01:26 PM)

Re: please tell me about lights?

I'm going to put this out here because maybe it will help someone:

Since most teams seem to just bolt lights to the hood or on the bumper - they are in other-than-stock locations.

Be careful not to block air flow to something.  We mounted our light bar to the very end of the hood on our Turbo -FC.

You wouldn't think so by looking at the install - but the light bar seriously increased our intake air temps by blocking some of the inlet to our top mounted intercooler:

http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LEC12/LEC12-UG-021.jpg

I can see some teams blocking air flow to their radiator or oil cooler or whatever cooler through poor light placement.

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Re: please tell me about lights?

If you want to be visible at night, reflective tape is a cheap solution.

Re: please tell me about lights?

My team is patiently waiting for this to become publicly available:

http://www.lumilor.com/

21 (edited by Fishah 2013-06-10 04:43 PM)

Re: please tell me about lights?

Team Sensory Assault wrote:

You wouldn't think so by looking at the install - but the light bar seriously increased our intake air temps by blocking some of the inlet to our top mounted intercooler:



I can see some teams blocking air flow to their radiator or oil cooler or whatever cooler through poor light placement.

Fortunately for the OPs car, cooling and radiator blockage is not a major concern smile

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Re: please tell me about lights?

russian wrote:

How do I make sure they point where they should point?

A flat surface and a wall, with room to roll the car back about 25 feet.

Where do they need to point?

Driving lights should be aimed more or less straight ahead, and somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 ft down the road.  If you know how far above the road they are, you can aim them with the aforementioned flat surface and wall and a little pencil-and-paper arithmetic.  Beware changes in the car's fore and aft ride height when actually driving.  You may want to angle a drive light a little to the outside on the dominant side of the track (LHS for MSRH CW) to pick up turn-in points.  This is more important when there are brake markers.

Apex lights kinda depend on the track.  I'd guesstimate maybe a 30 degree angle to the outside, similar or slightly lower length to the driving lights.

rodknox2 wrote:

If you want to be visible at night, reflective tape is a cheap solution.

Or self-tapping screws and a set of reflectors.

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Re: please tell me about lights?

Yup, $60 each but to each his/her own.  Headlights are one of those things where buying new makes sense to me.  Old not so shiny reflectors and old not so clear lenses dont let all the light out where you want it.  A couple new lights may be better than a bunch of old headlights.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: please tell me about lights?

We ran 4 new Hella 500 driving lights in the Chump race this past April at Buttonwilow...and they were terrifyingly poor. When/if we do another 24-hour race, I plan to have some properly designed HID lighting on the car.

Coincidentally, if you are looking for a pair (or maybe all four) of good used Hella 500 driving lights, send me a message. All four were purchased from Amazon; two were used for only one race and the other two were used for two races. Cheap...

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Re: please tell me about lights?

widgetsltd wrote:

We ran 4 new Hella 500 driving lights in the Chump race this past April at Buttonwilow...and they were terrifyingly poor. When/if we do another 24-hour race, I plan to have some properly designed HID lighting on the car.

Coincidentally, if you are looking for a pair (or maybe all four) of good used Hella 500 driving lights, send me a message. All four were purchased from Amazon; two were used for only one race and the other two were used for two races. Cheap...

I thought chump limits you to the Hella 500 and only 4 lights??

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